Been there done that. It gets old rather quickly… 
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I have a fantasy of going to a woman’s house dressed as a plumber, getting down on all fours and fixing her leaking faucet. And being paid $85 an hour.
I am a simple man, with a giant wrench (for fixing faucets!!)
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Yeah. Computer nerds never get paid for their efforts. Life is cruel.
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I’m a well paid nerd, but I like plumbing (mind! Gutter! Out! :D)
Once I get a bunch of electrical done tomorrow, by a pro since I always mix up ohms law, I will be plumbing my garage 
Is that what they call it these days?
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Yes, it is not guaranteed to do either. People can also go on to have many affairs or milk these afairs for years.
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Yeah, If I’d waited until I was ready for kids I’d currently be a 35 year old virgin, and would have missed out on several beautiful relationships. Kids are not a universal desire, and less so something everyone should be ready for by their mid 20’s.
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But you’re not taking your religious views out of it, this is why abstinence only education is practically abuse. Condoms and the pill.
Everyone should have sex before marriage, because then they know what sex is supposed to be like when you settle into a marriage. They can then know what they want for life in a partner.
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I’m not saying abstinent only for EVERYONE. I’m only saying that For Me.
I’d rather a well balanced sex ed get taught in school on proper condom use, Medication, those insert rings, and go into the hows and why each does their thing.
I was taught a surprising amount given what I’ve heard about what modern kids get to learn and I’m grateful for it since if it was just ‘abstane abstane abstain’ I’d be wondering what the fuck why these people are so hell bent on NO as opposed to all the bits and bobs.
I’ve settled on what works for me. Doesn’t mean other ways won’t work for other people. Also I probably won’t Marry as such, and instead focus on a monogamous relationship. If Marrige happens, awesome. If not. Awesome. However if I’m with them that’s it. Nobody else.
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But then all sex is premarital then 
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Oh so much this. Having had a decent enough exposure I wasn’t in a hurry to have sex, but yeah at least for a guy the whole first time thing (speaking for myself and other anecdotal evidence) it was kinda what that’s it… Not that it didn’t get better just the first time it is more like oh hey im actually havin…oh damn.
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Point.
My beef though isn’t premarital so much as infidelity. Going behind the other person’s back means you don’t trust them. You don’t talk. There’s a breakdown of communication in place. Things aren’t right.
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No, I think that was the “electrical done by a pro”, because I have a vulgar mind.
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Have you ruined it in your head?
Would you, could you, not in a bed?
Would you, could you, get turned on by feet?
Have you dreamed oral might be neat?
(there needs to be an addendum to the Numbered Rules Of The Internet that anything can be Green Eggs And Hammed)
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Your lackadaisical, libertine attitude is going to be the DOWNFALL OF US ALL!!!
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“malware”, I stopped right there!
HA HA HA HA!
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We should really split this into a different thread, for no other reason than historians have been studying the breakup of the USSR for a bit. And while there are similarities in tone to other mismanaged states as you mention, the immense spending (and i mean immense) on post war military a key differentiator to countries like saudiarabia, mexico, and turkey.
Anyway, this is completely off topic, so I will shuddup now but a Fallen Empire History threadwould be fun!
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I don’t think there’s a real sexual | non-sexual distinction. If it’s “behind your partner’s back,” it’s pretty much a problem because it’s behind your partner’s back. It could be smoking. It could be drinking. It could be going out with your friends when you should be home taking care of the kids and calling it a “work thing.” It could be blowjobs. Sex just happens to be one of those things that is very important to a lot of relationships.
Yeah, always exceptions. Some folks are in a situation they can’t easily escape. In those situations, the effort spent sneaking around could perhaps better be spent figuring out how to escape, but the trust violation is perhaps more understandable. It’s still a shitty thing to do, but it’s understandable that it’s a symptom of a shitty situation.
I don’t know that the children are being helped much by staying together if you can’t behave like adults and you can’t have honest conversations. At the very least, you’re modelling a relationship of mistrust and disrespect, and the kids are going to absorb that and move on to relationships like that themselves. A breakup might be rough, but a divorce is a positive thing in the long run, if the alternative is to have a shitty relationship that lasts for 20 years.
My reaction would be more along the lines of “Don’t use our children as a shield. You’re not helping them by keeping us together.”
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Well, as soon as the conversation moves into what makes a relationship work instead of into which strangers can be judged to be assholes based on lone facts that we have no context for, I don’t have much skin in the game anymore. Different things work for different people. I think a mutual understanding of the relationship is a very high bar to set for a bunch of apes that mostly don’t even understand their own emotions and desires.
I have some friends who got married fairly young. After a number of years he had an affair, they decided to get divorced. They live in different cities now and rarely see each other, but they are still friends. She met her second husband through him. I imagine they were headed for divorce anyway, but looking in from the outside I feel like that affair was just the only way he could manage to communicate the problems that existed. It’s a little analogous to suicide-by-cop - you don’t have the guts to say the relationship needs to end so you put the other person in a position to say it for you.
Honestly, I’ve seen this pattern in men lots of times. They want out of a relationship but it is too hard to tell their partners they don’t love them or that they want to be apart. So instead they behave terribly towards their partners (cheating = behaving very terribly) until they get dumped. They’d rather have their partner feel angry than feel sad. Maybe it’s because men are socialized to find anger tolerable and sadness intolerable and they project that onto women (too much pop psychology here, but it sure sounds plausible, doesn’t it?).
But maybe they are even right sometimes. I’m sure there are people out there who feel much better thinking, “I’m glad I dumped that asshole” than they would thinking, “Why did this happen? I don’t understand why they don’t love me anymore.” Not every time, but sometimes.
I;m also sure there are people who cheat just because they honestly want to have sex with other people and not out of some kind of flawed communication tactic. But I do think that affairs can be “good” things in the way you are suggesting because that’s what I’ve seen.
I still insist there is. In the vegetarian/non-vegetarian example, would you actually be asking a question like, “Well, if they don’t want you to eat meat, why are you still married to them?” Would we have people suggesting that a relationship couldn’t be otherwise working and harmonious while one party has a secret hamburger every now and then? If one party in that marriage just couldn’t help themselves an ate some bacon one day, would we all agree that they ought to go home and have a serious talk with their partner about the future of their relationship, or would we say, “Maybe just keep that to yourself and don’t do it again.”?
And when you get out of the relationship you are suddenly going to learn how to behave like an adult and have honest conversations? Family lawyers will tell you endless stories of insane, caustic divorces where children are used as weapons. People are awful to one another. I just don’t think that having affairs or lying about affairs is the gold standard for that to be held apart from the rest.
If I am currently having the wool pulled over my eyes then my partner is very much helping the kids by keeping us together. Maybe that’s just doesn’t sound plausible. I know someone who found out her husband had a 10+ year affair that she was literally clueless about. Of course she ended up being temporarily institutionalized and the father basically vanished from the family at that point, so I’m not going to say that is an example in my favour.
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Louie CK has some worthwhile words on it…
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