Maybe start by not thinking about how and just absorbing the fact that they do.
You can check any information source you want. The US spends more per capita than any other nation on the planet (not per person covered by health care, per person in the nation) but other nations provide healthcare to everyone. If that seems like it can’t be true, then understand that it is true.
In math, we often do proofs by contradiction.
My understanding of economics and health care says that a single payer system would cost more than a hybrid private/single payer system like the one in the US
A single payer system does not cost more than a hybrid private/single payer system like the one in the US
C. My understanding of economics and health care are incorrect
Ideology does not trump reality.
We do the same thing with dentistry and prescription drugs. We’d probably save money by paying for them publicly, but instead we pay to kill a few kids a year.
People inside a system can rarely analyze the system.
I don’t want to discount you or your friends experiences, but that just isn’t even close to what I’ve experienced. Copays and deductibles aren’t caused by the ACA, it’s a hell of a lot more… (Use your words, @japhroaig) nepotistic than that.
It’s almost like the singular of “data” isn’t “anecdote”.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that the ACA is perfect. It’s not. In fact, it’s less effective than it could be because Republicans insisted that things like a single-payer option were unacceptable for no reason other than “FREEDUM!!!”
But the answer to “how can we improve this massive piece of legislation that’s trying to improve a system that 315 million people rely on, and which has been deteriorating for decades” is not “tear up the few incremental improvements we’ve made for the first time in 50 years and continue to ignore the mountains of data telling us that government-operated single-payer coverage is better and more efficient because that solution is ideologically unsatisfying.”
The dentistry thing kills me! That should be covered!! Fine if not for adults then at least for kids! Ugh, I hate that we don’t cover that! We need to change that!
I wasn’t aware of this and it is rather high in the top ten of cruel factoids about the US healthcare system.
I think I prefer the evil compulsory health insurance the godless nanny state forced down my throat (some 8 % of my gross salary, the second half has to be paid by the employer)
The problem with dentistry is that there is nothing really insurable about it. For the most part, costs are pretty fixed for everyone (except those who don’t see a dentist); regular cleanings, the occasional filling, wisdom teeth removal, orthodontics… all fairly predicable and common enough that the costs for any given patient are probably pretty much the same. Medical insurance is based on the idea that four people in a thousand gets cancer, and it costs a million dollars to treat, so everyone will pay $50 a month just in case they get cancer (or whatever - math )
And it’s not just a moral argument, I’m pretty sure it’s a numerical one. Bad oral health leads to emergency surgeries and deaths. Whenever someone decides not to keep themselves healthy because it is too expensive to do so, the public ends up paying a massive bill later to attempt to save them (even if unsuccessfully).
I wish I had data that showed the conclusion was obvious (like the single payer vs. US-style health care costs) but I don’t think I have that data. Still, I can’t think of a good reason why I’d assume that dentistry works so differently than other areas of health care (I mean, I can think of several ways it is very different, but can’t think of why those would affect the conclusion that prevention is cheaper than crisis management).
Thank you for the obligatory right-wing fantasy alt-fact. Most of the people who don’t have health care do work, e.g., at part time jobs with no benefits. The vast majority of people who are out of work would like to work. And no surprise, they would like good jobs that pay a decent wage in an environment that isn’t toxic. Then there are the people who don’t work but could, either because they don’t have any skills (manufacturing having deserted the US, and of course education costs are out of sight), or have kids or elderly relatives to take care of (but child care cost are also out of sight). Then there are those who have emotional problems that make them basically unemployable without treatment (which we’ve basically destroyed in this country). And then there are those who are too sick to work, because they can’t get the medical care or drugs they need because we don’t have universal health care.
Now don’t reply saying I have no references for these claims. You provided no data to back up your statement I quoted above. “It is just to disincentivize people from working”??? Who in their right mind would want to keep people from working? It makes no sense whatsoever. (Well, except for conservatives who benefit by keeping people angry.)
When people complain about poor families parking their kids in front of game machines or the tv, this is one of the factors they aren’t considering. If you can’t afford to keep your kid covered, or can’t afford a copay, the risk of sending your kid out on a bike or skateboard or to the park is a factor in the calculus. (Leaving aside the risk of getting shot or having the cops or a cop wannabe curb stomp your kid.) If your kid is inside, playing a game that cost a few hundred, that kid is not risking breaking bones that may cost many thousands to fix, or may not be fixable given the family finances.
We raise taxes on people who can afford it. And that includes closing all the loopholes that make the fake “oh dear, corporations pay 35% in this country” such b.s. Big corporations have enough accountants and lawyers to pay far less than this. Maybe if there were no loopholes they could save money by not having so many accountants and lawyers. Same arguments for the uber-rich.
Oh, but then there’s the complaints about “why should I pay for someone else’s health care?” I don’t know; perhaps someone else here can explain insurance.
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