I’ll own my snarkiness about the pro-tip; because that was intentional.
If someone is constantly being accused of being condescending, then maybe its because they really are condescending to others, constantly.
What seems to be the major agitator in this thread is the gendering of the act of being condescending.
That is an awesome question.
This is the best answer I have come across:
(and it does get to painting, specifically)
Because being the first into the bro-pool usually means teaching the bros whats cool and whats not cool. All while on top of proving that girls can do anything boys can do by being better than the best.
So no. Not the same at all. In fact it sounds exhausting to me, and Im a strident feminazi bitch.
eg; Uber
Women do this quite a lot. We’re trained to “qualify” our answers so we don’t come off as “pushy” or “aggressive” or “bossy”. So we say things like “I think maybe Tom thought you broke his widget” even when we know for a fact that’s what Tom thinks.
“So much for the tolerant left.”
A long time ago, I realized that whenever someone opens their mouth and says “X is true”, that means that they “think that X is true”. Whether that actually coincides with reality, now that’s the hard question.
But whether someone says “X is true” or “I think that X is true” makes absolutely zero difference.
Some people are arrogant know-it-alls. When they say, “X is true”, they won’t accept the slightest possibility that they are wrong, and they won’t accept differing opinions. But when they say, “I think that X is true”, they won’t accept the possibility that they might be wrong, either, and thinking differently from them is an insult.
So again, no difference.
It’s not that simple to tell. Being annoyed leads to complaining, and others complaining can be annoying, so you can’t distinguish between the two things on formal grounds alone.
The worst mansplainer in the world will go through his day feeling annoyed by others who react ungratefully to his explanations, or by people who seem to ask a question and seem to hide the fact that they know the answer already.
A frequent victim of mansplaining will go through her day feeling that others unfairly complain about them not listening to their generous explanations.
Have you never met an asshole who might express interest in a subject, but wouldn’t ever want to listen to you on the subject, because they consider your opinion beneath contempt? Or have you met an asshole who says something that would normally considered a request to do something, and then berate you for interpreting the request differently from their secret interpretation of the day?
I’m not saying that’s the only way, but such experiences can be interpreted into that cartoon as well.
[quote=“anon50609448, post:65, topic:96005”]
I dislike the term “mansplaining” because it takes an issues that affects every marginalized group […] [/quote]
I still dislike the one-sidedness of the term, because as soon as I, as a man, enter a traditional women’s domain, I get to experience exactly what it feels like. When I find myself in a kitchen together with a woman, and she hasn’t had a chance to taste my cooking or to see me cook, then she will assume she’s in charge, and maybe give me a free beginner’s lesson on how to cut onions.
The situation might not be symmetric, but it is is symmetric enough that I resent that “they” now have an inherently sexist term they can use to call me out on it when I do it, and I still have nothing.
Fields that often don’t have a lot of women are inherently hard to get into because of toxic male behavior. Either overtly or tacitly. This is what actively discourages women, men on the other hand don’t have to worry about encountering biases against them
Any woman? What about the ones who can’t cook?
Yeah, I nodded and sensibly chuckled the first few times I read the Stephen Fry quote, but I have very mixed feelings about it now.
Applied to people who already have power, the quote is a useful tool. Applied to the non-dominant group in the argument, it’s just another tool to shut them up.
Exactly.
It coincides with their reality, usually (sometimes people make incendiary stuff up, too, but that’s uncommon).
I agree, so long as they are not making a statement about my wants, desires, intentions, or other inner knowledge which they cannot authentically state. Being told a) I think you are sad/you seem sad or b) you are sad ARE two very different statements - insert any emotion or inner state into that equation and you will see why I have a fence there, for myself, and I defend that one aggressively - as nobody but me is entitled to state my opinion, but anyone is entitled to ask about it.
The former as a statement of the observers experience seems authentic and kind and productive, and the latter is over-assetive, unkind, and toxic to conversation and understanding. The latter is a prejudice, a pre judging. I know who is insecure and closedminded or not within minutes of knowing them just by counting the number of times they assert someone else’s intent, and wether they find things out by a) making assertions or by b) asking questions, for the same reasons as a and b above.
Fear is the mind killer.
The only person I know who says ‘well, actually…’ is my mom.
She does it quite often, no matter the subject or our relative expertise.
I always just thought of it as condescension. I’ll try using a gendered insult next time she does it… Instead of discussing with her why I feel hurt and frustrated.
Well, actually, let me explain that…
That so perfectly describes my ex-partner / current-uncomfortable-roommate. It feels a bit Dunning-Kruger, as in: those to whom it applies are by definition unable to get the idea.
It’s an old joke; there are many different ways to talk down to someone.
I used to use the term fairly regularly, until I read an insightful article about ineffective communication; and then I made an effort to stop.
O_O
If that’s what floats your boat, then go for it, I guess. I know I wouldn’t try such a ploy with my mom, no matter how frustrated I may feel.
By all means, please do!
*lolz
Oh hey lookit that, Telsa too…
If you want more women in stem maybe do something to make stem so less godawful for women?
Not everyone woman wants to fight this fight.
Sorry, OT. I shush.
Certainly this is relevant. Dudes right here are responding, hey, once someone condescended to me, so nerts to your lifelong experience of systematic subjugation.
Yeah, there does seem to be a lot of ‘tone deafness’ going on in this thread.
Making the conversation into something personal:
…Kinda misses the entire point.
There’s a whole lotta baggage piled on by society that makes “womansplaining” nothing at all like “mansplaining”.
