This kind of hyperbole makes people stop listening.
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No, he called her a corrupt tool of Wall Street and pursued ethical charges that were started by Republicans back in the Clinton administration
On some level that’s true. Do you think a level playing field exists for
all of us and that the political parties in power aren’t partial
responsible for letting that happen?.
No. Nor does it have to. Political parties are private entities and make their own rules. You know that going in. Your job is to keep your eye on achieving your policy goals, even if that means you don’t maximize your personal glory.
Citation?
If true do you NOT see that as an actually problem which contributes to voter apathy?
I see a drive for purity and refusal to recognize that all political change as incremental as a far bigger problem. There have been exactly 2 revolutions in this country. One required the biggest economic downturn in human history, and the other a civil war.These times are not those times. So when you let the perfect be the enemy of the good, you are part of the problem.
I wouldn’t be surprised if promises were made for 2016 about her
position on the ticket or maybe she got promised the Sec. of State job
to get her to do so.
First of all, your suspicions are not evidence. But confusing the two is typical of the Bernie or Bust crowd. And second, that is the way politics works:
He did that for a whole host of progressive candiates to the left of the Dems mainstream. Good for him.
Good for Bernie but no one else?
I’m sorry but Bernie lost. It was then incumbent on him to make the deals he could and immediately support Clinton because of the consequences of a divided party. Now we are seeing the consequences of a divided party.
But at least you’re pure.
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No, natural selection abhors “intelligent” animals where what their peers think of them is more important than the real world.
So, if you know that it is a problem, cover the arctic circle, and/or sequester some gasses out of the atmosphere. But it appears that 99.999% of people aren’t doing anything about it only because the others aren’t doing it. It’s monkey-see, monkey-die - not my idea of intelligent. There’s only “no point” once you have tried and exhausted all other possibilities. Or - people can give up first and do nothing, in hopes that somebody else will. There are no easy answers.
Well I did hear that. I do prefer you expressing a sense of helplessness at our current ecological crisis (and it’s one hell of a beast) than blaming one variable in an election with many significant variables (esp. when it’s just going to perpetuate bickering). Still, I’d suggest you try to move from hopelessness to determination to keep doing whatever you can, and use your wrath to keep fighting the monsters in power now. I’ve been told it’s the end of the world all my life - while I do see why this situation is more serious, I will wait to see the end of the world before deciding things are done and will do my part to try to to keep up the war on the damage done by ignorance and greed. We can’t know if things are hopeless until we’ve finally lost, and while I’m with you that it’s likely, and things look grim, I’d rather die remembering that I fought than that I gave up and in so doing contributed nothing when things looked grim
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I disagree with you here on a couple of points:
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The earth gives no shits about humanity. It will survive post-humanity as an entity, so it is inherently not “…you can kiss the entire Earth goodbye…” worthy. Harshly-uninhabitable because of human choices? Yes.
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We aren’t screwed, because we are having this digital conversation. Previous peoples had no fucking idea what they were pontificating about, could barely communicate about it, and most likely brutalized each other instead; we do have some idea of what the fuck we’re talking about, are well-informed, and communicating, well, some of us…
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The universe is abundant with life, and you either believe that, or you don’t. Check yer Gods.
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SCOTUS is IMMENSELY important for the future of our country: Are we welcoming and free, or are we close-minded and controlling? Trump decides? grumble-grumble
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Thank you for sharing your opinion and perhaps for reading mine?
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The way politics works is the Clintons lost and they are out of the game.
Doubling down on “I’m With Her” is not a way for anybody to stay relevant.
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The GOP would be delighted to see the blue states lead the way in this.
If this chart is correct, there is not much that an American president can do one way or the other. And with natural gas prices in the basement, coal is not coming back, Trump’s promises not withstanding.
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Not as dismayed as they’d be to see the red states follow (thanks to cities and college towns). That’s why it has to be a national standard across all states pushed by one party of the duopoly (which, if you’d read carefully, all of those suggestions are).
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Your (really our) bias being that both U.S. duopoly parties and their candidates aren’t exactly the same and that just because one country behaves badly other countries shouldn’t just do nothing or emulate them to stay competitive.
A good illustration of your point is Canada, with that alarming 2011 stat. The old oil-friendly Conservative government wasn’t interested in doing anything about it, to the point where they would muzzle scientists employed by their federal government. Now here’s a summary of how Canada’s provinces were tackling it last year (this was shortly before the federal government went over to a Liberal party that supports those measures).
Most of the provinces seem to be aiming to cut per capita emissions by roughly a third by 2020, using measures that are far from draconian. We both know that the next four years won’t see the same efforts being made to Canada’s south.
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I suspect we agree more often than you realize. I’m pulling this out as a perfect example. Your statement is 100% correct. The coal industry isn’t disappearing because of namby-pamby climate change “believers”: it’s because natural gas is so much cheaper to produce. And at this point, so many electric plants have been converted to natural gas already that the tide has fully turned away from coal ever making a comeback. (To say nothing of the health dangers, or environmental, but I’m sticking to the economic argument right now.)
And more…it’s now so cheap to produce that the entire industry is in a slump. New wells are not being dug, and many of those that are already in operation are being taken off-line because there’s no profit to be made. All those jobs in North Dakota? Yeah, most are gone already. The new jobs promised in Alaska? Don’t give up the job you already have or expend any costs to get yourself there, because the jobs will disappear just as quickly as the various operators go under, and then you’ll be stuck even further from any other job source.
But I will say this: China is actually very forward-thinking about renewable energy. They have to be. And this is a country that managed to force an entire generation to only have one child. They have the will and the way, and they’re very much on the path to becoming a renewal energy powerhouse in the world.
We’re already in the backwater in the 21st century, and a Trump administration will only pull us further and further behind other industrialized nations.
(Again, not arguing any other issues, merely the economic one.)
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Boy, how I wish we had that kind of “will” here. Not.
It’s very hard to respond to your comment without going full Godwin, so I think I’ll let it stand at that.
Non of that gonna happen, plus, anyone identifying as liberal generally don’t know how to be mean to mean people, just each other, and the occasional easy targets, just like many others. I’m very clearly nerdy and drive a fucking Hyundai, but I get accused of voting Trump like you wouldn’t believe, so, good job liberals. I’m surprised there has been little to no advice coming from what came about of black live matters. As in, informing people to be prepared at any and all times to break out their phones, to be prepared to document harassment and abuse of any and all minorities by not just police, but by literally any and everyone these days, might just help, a lot. Little important. Hello new Russia!
But besides the point, regardless of what you identify with or as, I think people are FAR too divided in the US, there is a severe lack of solidarity and just general empathy for others here, everyone has THEIR way, what THEY think, only their flavor is the one true god, and anyone else, regardless of how close they could be to qualifying as an ally, can fuck off if they don’t want to follow. Which might present a SLIGHT PROBLEM concerning Moore’s “tips”.
Want to get rid of these monsters? Really, I mean REALLY pursue Trump’s tax fraud, pursue the unethical, and straight up illegal conduct and behaviors of him and his allies. As for “civil disobedience”, that is a BEYOND reckless, just, THING to even mention anyone do. If you want to get extreme, do what the goddamned French do when their government attempts to screw them over. Target the bad people and their shitty allies, make them feel afraid, make them fear. Screw! Them! FOCUS PEOPLE, FOCUS! Don’t tell people to just blatantly be “disobedient”, that is really, incredibly irresponsible. People tend to follow the path of least resistance, why pick on a guy that looks connected, roided up, and who clearly displays their shitty views on their rangerover, when you can turn around and pick on a guy like me? In my experience, people will turn around and vent their anger and frustration toward the easiest target, one that will seemingly pose the least threat of retaliation, having someone even mildly as important and exposed as Moore do this, is THE EXACT SAME THING that gave Trump his traction, and what gave Hitler such a run, just in case anyone was curios.
I really like how most of you are giving a top 5 lists of “what minor changes to a severely broken system need to be implemented over the course of multiple decades in order to fight Trump” and it’s just, hilarious how out of touch it is. Many of you might as well be saying, “if I were part of running Nazi Germany, here’s what small, minuscule changes I would make, that do not include NOT killing Jews, and general, blistering incompetence not withstanding.” (GODWIN’S LOLLAWLOL!!76386!), it’s just down right ridiculous, and not much else.
Finally BB has mentioned class in the context of this election.
Oh. Wait.
gloating trollies on the right who were all absent from gym class
I fear that unless the American liberals manage to wrap their heads around the idea that although Trump ran a racist campaign, race was probably not the major factor in his victory, the only thing that can stop Trump from a second term is Trump himself. Materialism, people! Base and superstructure!
Does it require to at least turn a blind eye to blatant racism and misogyny to vote for Trump? Sure! But for a working class voter not to find Trump’s economic, protectionist talking points far more appealing than Clinton’s offer of a status quo, that I find quite hard. Where is the answer of the Left to that?
Labour, protectionism, economic state intervention. These used to be the central topics of the Left! Where did it go? Does America even have a Left, in the economic sense? You may or may not know that in Europe, “liberal” means something rather different in Europe than what it does in the US. It is closer to what is today often called “neo liberal”. Coincidence?
You tried to beat Trump by appealing to morality, by denouncing his racism. Well, that failed. It was not enough, and while I agree it’s by all means necessary, it didn’t suffice and it will not suffice.
People have to stick their head out of their middle class, college educated bubble, look at the economic situation of those states that were lost to Trumpism, and develop an economic agenda that can compete with what Trump has been promising.
And please don’t hate me as a Trump apologist again, because I really am not. I doubt he will deliver anything of what he promised. But economically he has hit a nerve, and that’s where anyone who wants to get rid of him will have to go, too. Just my two cents.
edit: When a few days ago I dared to mention here that I find it doubtful that 1 in 4 Americans (i.e. about every 2nd voter at a turnout of ~60%) was a vile racist, and that this should the only explanation for Trump’s victory, I was met with some rather angry responses. Well it is so obvious. Most liberals have no concept of class, or of labour; it is totally transparent to them. They can only see the loud, obnoxious, ideological racism part; for them it is the one thing that defined this election.
But what are you going to do? Talk racists out of their racism? Hardly even possible. If you want to look at the voters in terms of racism, there’s a scale. You cannot win the election without those people that are not active racists, but don’t care so much about it that it would stop them from voting for Trump. It may not be to your liking, but you need those people, whose vote is not decided by race, but by other topics, of which the economy is probably the most important.
Economics played a role, but not by motivating people to vote Trump; that was overwhelmingly based in bigotry.
Where economics played a role is in discouraging support for Clinton. The working class is increasingly giving up on the Democratic party, for understandable reasons: they’ve been screwing the working class for decades.
But that doesn’t alter the facts that the base of Trump’s support is in the middle class (the working class were the only economic group that didn’t vote majority Trump), and that prejudice was the major factor driving their vote. As it is every year.
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