You know, it occurs to me that even discussing strategy, where people do tend to celebrate how clever armies were at butchering each other…all the main Nazi cunning is basically just the sucker punch. You don’t hear a lot about their successes against anyone who was ready for a fight.
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FWIW though there are lots of people like that in the world and while they are a real drain they still have to deal with consequences of things like getting fired, getting kicked out of school, getting arrested… these happen much harsher and much sooner with much less deference to their situations generally. Just being a narcissist is only a superpower if you are also a class of human who other people are unwilling or afraid to censure. At that point you just have a person with a lot of capacity to exploit in the perfect position to do it, and very little anyone is willing to do about it.
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“Smart” is a thorny concept when talking about people like Trump and his enablers. As pointed out above, “effective” is probably closer to the mark if you don’t want to get tangled up in the lines between intelligence, cunning, or just being an idiot savant.
I think it’s extra thorny, and somewhat dangerous, because it’s tempting to make blanket declarations that people like Trump’s enablers aren’t smart (or cunning, or effective, take your pick) by definition, that they’re just brutes stumbling through the world only getting what they want because they are brutes.
The same applies to 20th century fascists, Stalinists, and any number of odious regimes, in my opinion. It’s easy enough to however many examples of idiotic brutes doing idiotically brutal things in the service of these ideologies, but in my opinion, I think that approach risks ignoring the truly evil (another thorny concept, I’ll admit) intelligence that can and often does shape and direct these cretins, at least in part.
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You’re absolutely correct; I didn’t mention it only because you and perhaps others had mentioned it above, and it’s sort of baked into Trump. He’s taken his white, male and wealth privilege and leveled it up with his unrelenting “I’m always right”-ness. It’s been an unbeatable combination that landed him in the White House. I just hope his toxicity will be recognized by enough people to keep him out of it in 2025.
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Once again Shuck, you have written a very insightful comment.
(See my direct message to you from your post the other day. I sang your praises to the people here too, but I wanted you to know personally that your insights shared here at Boing Boing are valued. )
Thank you!
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Agreed. Trump has had advantages that your average everyday narcissistic sociopath hasn’t had – and has coupled it with the unrelenting attack mode I said was his true superpower. I think most people, even the most rotten, will back down when confronted. They’ll show some vulnerability that others can use to thwart them.
I guess one consolation is that among those who want to continue what Trump has begun, no one has exhibited the ability I outline above. When he dies – and he will die eventually – I don’t know of anyone (currently anyway) who can pick up the baton. Many will try. Hopefully all will fail.
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that claim was in the headline (Trump is smarter than us). 
he’s also a violent bully and absolutely willing to use force to get his way and he’s willing to use lawyers to hide his crimes.
Again, it’s grade level thinking, embracing violence to shape reality. That’s what it is… Trump, Hitler, Stalin, etc, none of them were of real intelligence. Not a single one. They were simply willing ot use force to get what they wanted.
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And they had the cults of personality needed to get others to do all the dirty work for them.
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We also have a very clear contemporary example in Putin. Right-wingers including Trump have spent a lot of time talking up how smart he is. And yet when his sucker punch against Ukraine failed, the only thing he has been able to come up with is brute force and posturing, hoping to grind down his opponents while refusing to concede an inch himself. Thugs from start to finish.
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For your definition of “real intelligence,” I’m sure that’s true enough. Hence, the thorny issue of what “smart” actually means. Whether or not Stalin and/or Hitler fit your or my personal definitions of “real intelligence” may be a bit of a rabbit hole, to be fair.
For what it’s worth, in addition to being genuinely evil, I think Trump is nearly illiterate and probably couldn’t pass a remedial 8th grade exam on just about any topic. But I also think that he is remarkably effective at motivating his cult of personality and dismissing that skill as luck or chance is dangerous. At least that’s my opinion.
Smart implies adaptable, creative, able to figure things out. A wrecking ball is really effective at smashing through buildings but it’s not smart. I don’t get why there should be any difficulty understanding the distinction. It’s important to be clear that bullying is not some special kind of intelligence even when it works.
D&D lists strength, charisma, intelligence, and wisdom separately. Let’s not do worse than that.
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I don’t disagree with any of that. Cheers!
Intellect and proficiency are not interchangeable.
So… you agree with Mindysan’s main point, you just prefer your own phrasing of the exact same sentiment?
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Very well put, couldn’t agree more.
So you weren’t disagreeing with Mindysan, then?
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Yes you could, by not saying things like this.
The reason you’re getting these things explained to you is because you’ve been talking like you don’t agree.
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Orban, too. And Erdogan, etc. People just want to justify force, frankly. They find force to be admirable, and they dress it up as intelligence to justify it.
Again, 3rd graders figure this shit out. This is exactly right. Intelligence doesn’t correlate with success, even if it can sometimes. We’ve never had a meritocracy in the modern age, or likely any other time in history. The ideology of meritocracy very much justifies the embrace of brutality as “smart”… I say we start calling bullshit on bullshit, because maybe one day, we can shovel our way out of ideologies like this and move onto something better for all of us.
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I’m happy to explain the disconnect. The full sentence you quoted from reads: It’s easy enough to [find] however many examples of idiotic brutes doing idiotically brutal things in the service of these ideologies, but in my opinion, I think that approach risks ignoring the truly evil (another thorny concept, I’ll admit) intelligence that can and often does shape and direct these cretins, at least in part.
I don’t think there is any tension between that belief and my opinion on Trump. I believe it is dangerous to discount the intelligence of Trump’s enablers, as I said above. I believe intelligent people are capable of monstrous evil, including manipulating the wrecking balls of the world. I’m not sure there’s disagreement here, but if my caution on the broad question is interpreted as disagreement on the narrow, the fault is mine.
That’s not exactly right, though.
You repeatedly rephrased what several other members had already posited… as if your own words somehow hold more weight or merit.
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And Trump AIN’T it… which is what we’re arguing here, not that people can’t be smart and evil. My argument is that fascism is NOT predicated on smart, it’s predicated on brute force (which is absolutely backed up by the historical record) and doesn’t need some sort of high level of social manipulation or 5D chess thinking by some one smart to make it work. The bullshit coming out of organizations like the Claremont institute (or whatever it is) or the Heritage foundation isn’t based on some incredibly smart ideas. It’s based on force and recycled fascism from the 20th century. They’re not doing anything particularly clever or worthy of the description “intellegent”.
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