Again, do you think that’s what Fred Rogers and Martin Luther King Jr. and Jimmy Carter and Sojourner Truth (among others) were doing?
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An enterprising person would have a stand next to the bonfire selling bulk books and trinkets. “Dont want to be empty handed when the time comes”
Also, I don’t believe in dark magic, but these folks do, and ritualistic burning a Tarot deck on Samhain seems like something that may invite something endless and unwelcome.
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Because they are believers. I’m not American, but I am a Christian, and while my religion is more of a choice than something like my sexual orientation or skin color, it’s still not a trivial thing, nor something easily abandoned. Nor should it be! If there are villainous people doing bad things using Christianity and various churches as cover and excuse, it is them that should be driven out or made to repent, not the people who are doing no evil.
Also - as I said, I’m a Christian. And if I heard a voice telling me to do something strange and outrageous and as apparently evil as burning books – especially harmless ones, like Clifford the Big Dog – I would be very concerned about whether I was having a mental breakdown, and if not, if I was told by a spirit to do such things, then who exactly it was speaking to me.
These people talk constantly about Satan and how the Devil is the lord of this world (which gets rather close to Manicheism and various Gnostic heresies, but maybe that’s just me…), yet they don’t seem to ever pause to consider if the Lord of Lies might be misleading them…
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Just for the record, the institution that is literally ruining the world right now is capitalism. Also very much the default in the USA, but if we could only do something about that, a lot of these other things would be a lot less of a problem.
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This is the problem you get when one of the foundational myths of the religion is “If you hear a voice in your head saying to stab your son, I’m just testing you, and obedience is really, really good.”
blind obedience to authority isn’t a sidfe-effect. It’s baked into structure, and it’s part of how the meme replicates itself. As is getting annoyed at people for calling it out.
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Once again, authoritarianism can come in many forms… I mean, Jesus’ entire back story is literally opposing an authoritarian, oppressive, imperial power, and the people in his community that enabled them. He was literally executed for his rebellion against an oppressive state.
There are just as many interpretations in the history of Christianity that highlight THAT, rather than the concept of blind obedience to authority.
Also, a while back @mspie500 posted this article in the speaking of faith thread, and it’s a really thoughtful engagement with the story of Job, which many have interpreted as god just abusing his authority, but the heart of the might actually be a lesson about speaking truth to power…
Arguing that Christianity is ONLY about authoritarianism makes about as much sense as arguing that Das Kapital is only about oppression. The actual history flies in the face of that notion.
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Well, not to speak for all of us, but I feel you are painting with way too fucking broad a brush, my friend.
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Just as well nobody’s doing that then. It’s not ONLY about authoritarianism in the same way the USA isn’t ONLY about racism. It’s always there, and it keeps on influencing things negatively, all over the place.
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Again, that isn’t even the actual root of the religion. There is certainly a history of authoritarian use of faith, no doubt, but you’re claim was that it’s:
baked into structure
The reality is that people in the distant past did not understand what mental illness was, and this was one way to understand it. They worked with the tools that they had and people who heard voices often became revered figures… while we just throw those people away, more often than not, especially if they come from poor communities…
I’m not willing to blame all “bad things” on religion, when that’s not what the evidence shows me. Authoritarianism is about power and control, and whatever comes in handy to use will get used.
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Again, that’s way too absolutist. Religion has been a positive influence in many areas. It has also been taken to some very dark places. This is another place where oversimplification is just not working. No human group is monolithic, and to dogmatically go with “religion=bad” is deeply offensive to a lot of folks I would consider good people.
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By all means, let’s call dipshits like the one in the OP out! But let’s look at the facts at hand and not make broad sweeping generalizations, because that helps no one.
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I work in the Waukegan Public Library, Ray Bradbury’s childhood home. We have a lot of connection to Ray here, so naturally this comes up a lot. This is from last year’s Banned Book Week, which incidentally starts this Sunday for this year. Good timing on this pastor’s part, I guess?
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I don’t think anyone here is trying to blame all bad things on it. There’s more than enough to be getting on with if we just restrict ourselves to the ones that it really does cause.
That’s not at odds with anything that I said. Many of those dark places and horrible outcomes can be attributable to the authoritarianism that is part and parcel of the whole thing.
If people want to keep the good and discard the bad, then it’s up to those people who are part of those religions to remove the authoritarianism and all the other negatives from their religion and its institutions. That’s hard work, and can’t be imposed from outside.
Ultimately, if that were to happen, and religion were to be de-fanged as an instrument of oppression, then that would be a positive development for this atheist, because it would no longer be so much of a threat to me, or anyone else.
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Religion is a tool of structure, a way to make sense of a life and it’s place in the world, and how to move through it.
A person’s intent is what makes a religious practice “bad.”
Othering is always intentional, and it happens whether religion is involved or not.
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I am really hoping to see a follow-up story about what happened when a bunch of people showed up with this pastor’s favorite edition of the Bible, copies of ‘The Art of the Deal’, and suchlike.
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If by “the whole thing,” you mean the human condition, we agree. Authoritarianism is hardly limited to religious institutions. Expressly atheistic institutions can be, and have been, harshly and dogmatically authoritarian. There are no human constructs that have not, in one way or another, been used in the furtherance of someone’s personal power trip. Religion has certainly been used as a tool of control and dominance, but has also been a path to liberation and freedom. Many of the abolitionists were motivated by religious beliefs. So were many of the colonizers. It’s just another way to stereotype people. “You are a Christian, therefore you are a Trump-loving, transphobic, small-minded asshole.” Raphael Warnock is a Christian. MLK was a Christian. I am a Christian. Pigeonholing is always wrong. It’s lazy. It means judging a large group by often cherry-picked individuals while ignoring others that don’t fit. We rightfully criticize the fascists for this behavior. We need to be better ourselves.
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Huh, they used and old paintball gun and mask to make a “fireman” costume?
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