Missouri student files complaint against Melissa "Muscle" Click

[Mindysan33]

So, black lives matter or all lives matter?

[higreg]

Let me highlight this point for you.

@zikzak

Tai refused to leave, and a crowd of protesters got in front of him, blocked his way, and gradually pushed him back.

Tai was pushed. That is battery. He had a right to be there at that moment.

Schierbecker, however…as I understand it, was assaulted. Lawyers, help me out here, but isn’t assault essential battery + threat? He refused to leave. Click threatened him with physical harm (i.e., calling out the muscle) and he was jostled, pushed, etc., repeatedly.

If y’all want to talk about that, let’s. If we want to argue about who
touched who how hard, and the legal definition of assault, I think
that’s avoiding the point of why we’re interested in the story in the
first place.

This has become a sideshow–a diversion, even–yes, but free speech and freedom of the press are not trivial issues.

[anon26940528]

@frauenfelder

Professor Melissa Click says she can’t recall pushing University of Missouri student Mark Schierbecker, who recorded her calling for “muscle” to remove him from a campus protest. But Schierbecker says she did push him and he has filed a complaint with the with campus police, reports USA Today.

So what’s the issue? That the apology failed to acknowledge a push, or that the apology was somehow not enough? At a certain point, you let this shit go. I don’t like being pushed any more than anyone else, but if you’ve had time to cool off and the woman issued a formal apology that was not a “non-apology apology” then you need to lay off. If you were injured, that would be different. But, I’ve been pushed as an adult with no apology and not made a criminal case out of it. Seriously. What is it about this country? It’s like we don’t understand this weird concept called “forgiveness.”

[anon26940528]

@higreg

She’s setting herself up with an out in the very first line. Everything was so emotional and confusing that she forgot about the rights of others and that she really oughtn’t call out enforcers to molest others. Man, what a day. I hate it when that happens to me.

“I was having a rough day, I shouldn’t have done The Thing. Sorry.”

“Why are you telling me about your rough day? It’s like you don’t know how to apologize at all!”

There’s recognizing when someone has said, “Sorry. Not Sorry.” and then there’s looking for a reason to reject the apology. I suppose on some level no one has to accept an apology ever, but you don’t have to bullshit me, okay?

[higreg]

So, black lives matter or all lives matter?

Is this a zero sum game?

[higreg]

@ActionAbe

There’s recognizing when someone has said, “Sorry. Not Sorry.” and then there’s looking for a reason to reject the apology. I suppose on some level no one has to accept an apology ever, but you don’t have to bullshit me, okay?

I was distracted by a video of a cat, so I’m really sorry if I offered a response you thought was bullshit.

[Mindysan33]

No. When people say “black lives matter” it’s not about others not mattering, it’s an acknowledgement of the status quo where black lives still count for less in our country.

[anon26940528]

@higreg

I was distracted by a video of a cat, so I’m really sorry if I offered a response you thought was bullshit.

Apology accepted.

[Max_Blancke]

I feel a little bit sorry for her. She is too young to have been part of the Anti-War or Civil Rights protests of the Vietnam era, and seems to be reenacting the struggles of that period the way middle aged guys sometimes reenact the civil war. She is prominent in the video of the homecoming parade protest, and seems likely to be playing a large behind the scenes part in recent events at U of M. I am interested to see what her actual agenda is. And everyone should watch the homecoming video. It is the primary act of alleged physical violence that led to the hunger strike and later events at the school.

[clifyt]

@Mindysan33

Is that exactly the same thing that happened though? I’m not trying to defend her actions, but the backlash has been vitriolic and deeply gendered.

But does ‘deeply gendered’ actually matter in the idea that she did this. And personally, if it would have happened on my campus, I would be very angry no matter who did it. For some reason, and it MAY be gender…I don’t know and I’ll admit this…Dr. Click REALLY f’n annoys the hell out of me.

Regardless, for some reason no one has made the same calls for her husband to be removed when he was on camera doing the same thing – and actually trying to pull the camera out of these students hands. He is a faculty member as well and head of a department. So maybe conceding the point, why aren’t we demanding he be fired too? Because he should be.

[higreg]

No. When people say “black lives matter” it’s not about others not
mattering, it’s an acknowledgement of the status quo where black lives
still count for less in our country.

Exactly. And when Schierbecker says “freedom of speech” it’s not about the Missou protest being somehow invalid.

[brant]

Her apology or lack of apology - who cares?

She’s a faculty member who is assaulting a student reporter. She’s also making the school look really bad. Why wasn’t she fired?

[mallyboon]

This isn’t about rights trampling though - because Click has admitted that part was wrong, and apologized. The world has acknowledged that what she did was bad. So this is about whether the student in question feels satisfied with the apology, and what he’s going to do since he isn’t.

Based on everything I’ve read about this incident, it’s highly unlikely to happen again because (concern trolley moment) it looks bad on the movement. Since that has been established, can we go back to talking about the racists who attend the school and the indifferent pricks administering it?

@higreg

This is the point where Picard reminds us that we don’t cast out the fundamental rights we hold dear when it is inconvenient

I never said we should. I’m just saying that this guy should accept the apology and move on, and speculating about his motives for not moving on. And if this is about so called assault/battery claims he should have gone there in the first place.

[Mindysan33]

Yes, I think it does. Just like if this was a black guy doing that, the response that included racist language would follow accordingly.

@clifyt

For some reason, and it MAY be gender…I don’t know and I’ll admit this…Dr. Click REALLY f’n annoys the hell out of me.

I don’t think you should agree with her or her actions, but I think it matters that we understand the response to her actions. The fact of the matter is that women and people of color are held to higher standards on many things. The first time we show the slightest weakness, we’re told about it.

[higreg]

@mallyboon

And if this is about so called assault/battery claims he should have gone there in the first place.

Perhaps, perhaps not. He’s allowed time to think about it. Distance offers perspective. Hey, this guy just might be looking to make a name for himself (though that spanks of blaming the victim), but the fact that he’s tried to revisit discussions with Click (and been rebuffed) says a lot, too.

[jlw]

@Boundegar

a bullshit apology should be called out

however harassment isn’t OK because someone failed to apologize sufficiently. also I am troubled by the idea that a sufficient apology would obviate the need for our criminal justice system in a case of physical assault of a student by a faculty member.

[miasm]

So why are a large group of people attempting to intimidate a journalist exactly?
And why does their motivation excuse their behaviour?

@zikzak

Liberal And Academic Yet Ironically Orwellian Thought Police Who Have Used Political Correctness To Promote Intolerance

Intolerance? Is that what they are being criticised for promoting? Not just for intimidating a journalist for attempting to do his job? Because it sure seems like that’s what people are talking about.

For sure, there are deeply ingrained ideological structures at play, and for some people the inherent attachment to clichéd narratives which serve such structures are central to the importance they attribute to particular situations, but that doesn’t excuse intimidating behaviour nor explain it.

Sometimes the surface detail also deserves an explanation without reference to the supposed biases of people who look for such answers.

[miasm]

I can’t pin this down. Is his report to the authorities based upon his non-acceptance of her apology?

Or do you just mean that it would be weird for someone to feel that an apology about such an occurrence could contribute to their welfare that was damaged by the incident?

I’d prefer that an apology would not be a contributing factor to the report of intimidation and violence but I kinda can see how meaningful actions taken by the attacker (by way of a sincere apology) might minimise at least some of the harm foisted upon the journalist.

If the non-acceptance is a contributing factor to the sought involvement of the police, I’d call bullshit. Unless it was a particularly grating non-apology, read in Vogon verse.

[clifyt]

@Mindysan33

Yes, I think it does. Just like if this was a black guy doing that, the response that included racist language would follow accordingly.

But these are two separate issues. Would the racist comments be horrible? Yes. But the initial argument of what happened is what is in play. Being concerned about folks that report an injustice are not the kind of people we want reporting the injustice…its just a bit wrong. You can be right about an injustice you see and a horribly flawed person at the same time. Regardless I somewhat agree with you, I’m still curious why no one is coming out the same against Chip Callahan. Maybe we need to be giving his name equal time with the other two because he was equally a part of the intimidation against the students.

[Mindysan33]

I’d say that race and gender constructs feed into each other and are part of the hierarchy we all live within. Women and minorities are often played off of each other, historically. But one thing is certain, that people of color and women are often disciplined in similar ways, socially.

I’d offer that the reason why he’s not being targeted is because he’s a man. Maybe you don’t see it that way, but even here, there has been gendered comments about her - some said she looks like carrot top and some questioned her legitimacy as a prof overall based on her topic (which is feminist in orientation). You may not see that, but it’s clear as day to me.

I’d say she’s apologized, and the reaction to what she did is a bit over the top, IMHO.