The reason I don’t much care about this is because a) our legal system is ridiculous, and b) nobody was significantly harmed
Put another way, I suspect that even if Popehat himself came in here and said “That was technically not assault, no crimes were committed here!” you would still have a pretty similar attitude about what happened. It matters to some legal bureaucrats somewhere, but let’s be honest, it doesn’t matter to us.
The reason this case is on Boing Boing, and not the countless other cases where someone allegedly pushed or threatened to push someone else, is because of the principles you mentioned, as well as others:
Free speech, freedom of the press, ownership and control of space, privacy and safety, the purpose of the public sphere…these are actually interesting issues that are raised by this incident, and the conclusions are not obvious. I think the impulse to say “First Amendment, get her up on charges, case closed” is simplistic, un-reflective, and not actually conducive to a freer society.
Apparently the gentleman waited to report the battery until after he decided she was not going to apologize in the way he wanted? Perhaps I read too much into it.
If you strike me you commit the crime of battery. If you strike me and say sorry, you have apologized for committing the crime of battery. I don’t see how the welfare of the victim comes into play. The criminal justice system of the united states of america is the wrong place to look for renumeration, emotional or financial.
I can’t. The actual crime being spot lit here is battery or some form of inappropriate physical contact. Even if this was a discussion about journalists rights, which it is not, the feelings of the victim are immaterial. Did the faculty member push or otherwise strike a person? Maybe we can discuss letting the university handle it, but this is physical assault. There are consequences.
It sounded to me as if it was “I don’t like your apology. I’m gonna call the cops.”
What I have to say is not relevant to the larger discussion, but it just an observation about your analogy/metaphor. ST and STTNG especially is a pretty terrible example of even application of abstract principles. Didn’t the STTNG crew violate the Prime Directive every other episode? And if ST were our model for policy, we’d need a lot of Kirks and a lot of rubbers. Maybe a corset or two.
I’ve always thought that STTNG and Iain M. Banks’ Culture series to be really good fantasized or wish-fulfillment narratives for what the United States wants to be, the ever benevolent, always right and just interceding power. The crazy neocon fantasy of what would happen in Iraq after the post-9/11 invasion is so like a plot of STTNG or the Culture series: a few tweaks, the right pushes, and things will just Work Out for the Better, at least in the terms of the more powerful civilization.
Don’t, btw, confuse my nerdy idealistic observation about SF with actual politics. I’m more of a Rortyean pragmatist, and think that my values are the right values. Given a starship, the assistance of a Mind, or the US military, I might just try to “teach” those Others a thing or two.
I have no love for Click, but this particular story is that the student is filing a complain not because she pushed him but because “found her apology ‘lacking’” (to use your pull-quote).
We already have a thread to castigate Click’s actions, and there’s been plenty of ink spilled there. But this is a fairly irrelevant part of it.
I guess I’m annoyed because these posts look exactly the same as all the anti-Click posts on every rabid right-wing website out there. This one could have been copied from RedState.com.
Even when we agree that Click and those students were utterly stupid, and that the incident was a great teachable moment, it’s worth taking a moment to reflect on why the right-wing bloggosphere is so happy to jump on this event, and how you posting multiple articles about it here contributes to their narrative.
Edit: Wow, I just pulled “RedState.com” out of my ass, because I don’t actually ever go there for obvious reasons, but decide to check and not only are there a dozen posts making fun of the Missouri protests, claiming the racism and poop swastika are fakes, and generally saying that Melissa Click is a she-devil, but this article, The #Mizzou Leftists are Upsetting the Media Leftists, is exactly what I’m talking about here. @frauenfelder, the right-wing is falling over itself laughing that liberals have gotten themselves into a state where they’ve basically turned against the anti-racism protests because of this stupid Click.
If the student says the apology was a poor one and the professor said it was a good one, I’m going to believe the person who wasn’t the aggressive bullying asshole who incited violence against a student, pushed the student, and deprived the student of his first amendment rights. I’m going to side with the person who remained calm, polite, and strong in the face of intimidation.
I don’t give a fig for what the idiots at Red Wing State say about this, either. I’m sure they are using it to push their own agenda.
Almost entirely agree with you, especially as to how the article reads as if his opinion of the apology factored in to his decision to pursue grievances.
But…
Wouldn’t contrition factor in to how legal proceedings might develop? Especially in any kind of determination of appropriate punishment? I totally agree that a persons apparent contrition should have no bearing over a judgement of what (unlawful behaviours or actions) transpired but might not (say) a display of hubris and stated expectation of impunity flavour how a court deliberates on such a topic?
It’s just annoying that, over a year of talk about the Ferguson protests and #BLM and the anti-racism protests at universities, this is the first thing you post about? Several posts about? An incident that those “idiots” at RedState are also gleefully showing outrage over?
You generally don’t post about these kinds of civil rights issues — dozens of great articles about Ferguson in BoingBoing, none by you — and that’s fine, but this one made you so amped up?
I just really think you should reflect on why the right-wing is so happily outraged about this as well.
It really does feel the same as if you had written a post criticizing some “bad” teen for doing something illegal and stupid during a Ferguson protest. We could all agree objectively that some teen might have done something bad, but can’t you see why those are the only kinds of articles the right wing writes about, and why only presenting that narrative would be harmful? And sticking to the line “But she did she did do something wrong!!” doesn’t address what I’m asking, because we’ve all already agreed with that.
You are very wrong if you think I don’t cover civil rights injustices. Here are some from this year:
Is that enough for me to pass your litmus test, or did I fail it for not writing something specifically about Ferguson? By the way, while I didn’t specifically post anything about Ferguson in my name, I was constantly sharing stories with Xeni, who did a fine job of covering it for Boing Boing.
You may find me annoying. I find you to be annoying for not doing your research and publicly accusing me of not being sympathetic to civil rights. I think it is fine to care about civil rights injustices AND first amendment rights injustices.
My research was poor, agreed. I searched all the articles tagged race, blm, blacklivesmatter, ferguson, protests, and baltimore (which was still a lot) and found lots and lots of articles by @xeni and @doctorow, and none by you. But I didn’t search every post written, 'cause you guys do write a lot…
It’s just that stories like this is what is causing the country to turn against black protestors, and to keep doing your part to shape that side of the narrative — with three articles so far on Click — just feels unfortunate.
Done. I’ve said what I wanted to say too many times now. Sorry.
In that vain could you please post something on this here:
Because this is the context of Dr Click’s actions. And every persecution takes context into account e.g. pleading for Self-defence.
How about we, you, everyone shifts the focus to making the public case / fighting for the 1st Amendment Rights of the Concerned Students.
They were subject to assault on a completely different scale than Schierbecker, and the law does recognise the severity of an offence. If he is a student at UM than his demand for an apology without simultaneously demanding an apology for his fellow students, those kids who were abandoned and stranded in the middle of the road facing a seriously hostile mob, prepared to use a car as a weapon, just sounds hollow and self-centred.
I think it is good to call out injustice, wherever it is. Just because right wing people take a particular view, it does not mean that we have to take the opposite view. If you excuse injustice because it supports your cause, you lose the moral debate. There are plenty of people who care much less about right and left than they do about right and wrong.
I still don’t think it rises to the level of needing charges to be pressed, but the guy (the second guy, not the first guy) didn’t like her groveling quite enough…
Actually yeah. It did. And it made the Sylvester McCoy era Doctor Who seem a bit sexist too. Women were kind of shrill harpies in that era.
