I haven’t made it in a very long time, but I used to quite enjoy braising Pork in Milk-- not porcine milk, mind you, but bovine milk. It’s quite common in india, as well.
There is some significant difference. First is obviously in importance. No one ends up in complicated legal proceedings because they didn’t get a drink. The second is rank. there are many jobs at an airline many of which don’t involve serving alcohol. Most flights probably had enough folks on it that would be easy enough to have someone else bring the drink. She isn’t the head of food and beverage demanding that no booze be sold by her subordinates. I imagine the airline probably found it significantly inconvenient to keep her from being scheduled on flights with small crews where the attendant from first class would have to be pulled and frequent flyers annoyed.
So there is plenty of middle ground but just not a clear line because the “reasonable” in reasonable accommodation is in the eye of the beholder.
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No gold-farming on the Sabbath then?
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Ever tried to order a camera from New York on a Saturday?
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Well, I find it hard to drum up sympathy (or even consider such a course of action) when anyone uses their personal interpretation of their choice of invisible bearded sky-wizard’s rules to justify any action, be it not doing their job or not complying with the law or trying to get laws passed to stop other people from doing SomethingBad™ . Take a look back at statements from, e.g., Jack Kennedy as to what separation of church and state should mean.
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< pedant | aside | low priority | not takin’ cheap shots >
Not fer nothin’, but I think you mean “Reform Judaism”. The “-ed” gives it quite a different meaning.
< / pedant | aside | low priority | not takin’ cheap shots >
Additionally, in New York (and many other places) there is a physical boundary erected (strung?) that allows for certain types of activites during shabbat.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/a-translucent-wire-in-the-sky/?_r=0
Well in the UK most “Indian” restaurants are actually run by Bangladeshis: Bangladesh is a predominantly Muslim country, but I’ve never been unable to get a lager with my curry. (Except in the cheap and cheerful restaurant/canteen attached to the local mosque, but I’ll give that one a pass.)
I suspect that as Islam doesn’t have the same sort of clerical hierarchy as, say, the Catholic Church, asking what the Muslim faith (singular) does or does not allow is not an easy question to answer.
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[quote=“Grey_Devil, post:8, topic:65274, full:true”]
I need clarification on people who might be more savvy with the Muslim faith. Does it expressly forbid you from serving alcohol? I was under the impression that drinking was forbidden, not serving it.[/quote]
In Minneapolis they have Somali Muslim taxi drivers - I have no idea what kind of cruel joker would send tropical Africans to live in Minnesota, but they’re there.
They have been having problems because some of the people they pick up at the airport have one of those tax free liquor bottles, if the Somali finds out he won’t drive you, because he can’t transport alcohol. ( Or guide dogs )
Link:
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So i see a core difference between the county clerk and the flight attendant: the county clerk is a duly appointed government official, this airline attendant is not.
Taking that post and acting as part of the government means agreeing to certain things, including the 1st amendment’s rules on how the government (and by extension its officials) must consider (or more accurately not consider) their person religious beliefs in the execution of their lawful duty.
People often erroneously cite the 1st amendment in regards to other individuals or companies being required to tolerate their religious stuff, but the county clerk case is what it actually applies to: If a government official doesn’t want to follow the law because it conflicts with their religion, the government has a legal obligation to replace them or work around them. Since this clerk refused to let them work around her (by not allowing other clerks in her office to follow the law) they removed her.
Hobby lobby and this airline are also different: one is about an employee refusing to do part of their job because of religion, the other is about a company refusing to allow their insurance premiums to pay for certain non-work-related medical procedures because of the owner’s religions.
Trying to lump them all together and say they all have to be resolved the same is bad logic, like saying all vehicle crashes have equal fault to all parties regardless of circumstances.
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I was doing service work in a nursing home speaking to a guard/receptionist, when every once i a while a person would come and stand by the automatic door. He would see them and get up and approach the door until it opened and they would walk through. I asked if the sensor on the outside was broken. He reminded me that on the Sabbath Orthodox Jews could not use electrical devices, and the local Rabbi had ruled that the automatic door counted as a device, and they could not activate them. It was OK if someone else activated them and they walked through.
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And why can’t you eat aa kosher chicken sandwich with cheese? To avoid all the hen’s milk problems I suppose.
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Ok. I have no trouble being consistent here. If you can’t do the job, don’t take it. It’s that simple. There are jobs I wouldn’t take, out of ethical convictions, that pay more than what I make now. Same deal. You don’t get to take a job as a bartender and not serve booze, you don’t get to take a job as a pharmacist and not fill prescriptions written by a doctor. You don’t get to be a soldier and choose what legal orders to follow.
Otherwise, I can simply say that my religion forbids me from working on holy days, which happen to fall five days a week. That’s not a reasonable path to go down.
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I’ve been to Indian restaurants in UK and Ireland who have a byob/w policy on religious grounds, though they’re in the (significant) minority of course.
Oh dear, why are companies so bad at this stuff? Dear airline, here’s a freebie:
"We at (Airline) are currently working with Ms. Stanley to find a reasonable compromise and investigate whether it is logistically possible to ensure her needs are met without impacting service to our customers. We are also discussing with her equivalent roles that would not place her in such a difficult position but allow us to retain her considerable experience, such as administration or training other staff.
While we investigate our options, Ms. Stanley has been suspended with pay. We hope to resolve this quickly and in the best interests of all concerned."
Give her suspension with pay to give yourself time to look into things (it’s waaaay cheaper than being sued) and use that time to figure out whether your scenario is a bona fide qualifying exemption (this seems like a fairly gray area to me, so it will probably take a little while).
If it is, offer her another job. If it isn’t, figure out how to accommodate her with some reasonable compromises (eg. She won’t be able to work smaller flights with only one or two attendants) and move on. Since you handled this so well she’ll probably be happy to work with you, and will lose the moral high ground if she makes a stink at that point. Everyone wins, you gain some good publicity for how you handle it, and the world gets a little better for all concerned.
Or this shitshow. Whichever you prefer I guess.
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I’ve known a Muslim who abstained from all alcohol containing products that could be applied in anyway to the body, not just ingested but any use of it on the skin.
OK. This is not funny. I thought we watched the entire That Mitchell and Webb Look run on Netflix, but people keep posting clips that I did not see.
https://discourse-cdn.global.ssl.fastly.net/boingboing/images/emoji/twitter/crying_cat_face.png?v=0
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Well, see, she’s the wrong religion. How do you not get that?
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If you want the paycheck you have to do the work, religion or not. If your religion prevents you from doing a job, don’t apply.
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I had many practicing Muslim college friends in college (mid-80’s) who enjoyed going to parties but did not imbibe. Among these friends were two brothers and a sister, and yes they were her chaperones. No drinking or dancing with dudes (unless a group thing), but no hijab. Also, my very good male Pakistani friend, who occasionally had a drink, had a friend who was a bartender who didn’t drink. The tips were just too good to pass up.
I think this person’s more recent religious conversion mirrors many who recently convert (to any religion). They tend to take the word of God/Allah very seriously.
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