New Brexit deal announced. It's Theresa May's one but with a border in the Irish sea

There’s your problem. They’re running a bit low on those at the moment.

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You can’t mess with the relationship between Ireland and Northern Ireland. People in that area are terrified of a return to the Troubles. Absolutely shit scared.

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:frowning:

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Turns out the Tories wouldn’t eat cold sick from a woman, but they’ll eat it warmed up by a man

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There is another significant change. The “level playing field”, whereby the UK agrees to at least vague regulatory alignment with the EU on things like environmental standards and workers rights, has moved from the legally binding Withdrawal Agreement to the indeterminate Political Declaration. Which may or may not be legally binding as nobody is quite sure (even if there is a clause in the WA that says it is, this cannot bind a future Parliament.)

What this actually means is that the EU now have an additional bargaining tool for the actual Trade Agreement (the one we haven’t started negotiating yet) in which they can require that regulatory alignment as a binding part… We’re getting ever closer to having to choose between the EU and the US but without being able to influence either of them.

So yeah, great bit of negotiating there, Johnson. Cede everything the EU originally asked and add a bit more for good measure. That’s what happens when you leave your homework until you’re on the school bus in the morning.

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Oh, FFS. It’s less than two weeks to go. The country is on the verge of ruin and Labour is worried about the enthusiasm of a nostalgia-addled old man.

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The mostly sane ones are insufficiently sane to commit electoral suicide in the face of “the people’s will” (TM the UK right-wing press). The loonie ones don’t care or deludedly think they are all electoral catnip. The really sane ones are doing their best. Watch out for an amendment on Saturday that approves the deal only if there’s a referendum. If that loses, it is still not certain (but very likely) that the deal will get passed by Parliament. I am - at last - holding my breath.

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This. If Tories are in charge it will be the US. If Labour or some other coaltion of non-Tories, it will be the EU. Sadly and predictably, neither party will clarify this or be honest about it when we get to the inevitable election.

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I remain optimistic that this will be voted down on saturday (first time the commons has convened on a saturday since the falklands war). :innocent:

Wales will be joining them, hopefully. Support for independence has surged recently because all correct thinking natives know that the nation would be ruined without the massive investment it gets from the EU (£680 million yearly).

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ummmm

A recent poll for ITV Wales showed that 12% of people support self-government.

Its also the only other part of the UK that went leave.

The word of the question is key.

That was then, this is now. You can find plenty of current polls that puts remain above leave and what about the 47% of those who voted remain? They damn well get a say in their and their children’s and grandchildren’s futures. This is the reason why at the very minimum there needs to be a confirmatory referendum, a whole lotta water has passed under the bridge since 2016 and the grubby brexiteers are quite willing to change their tune.

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There you go. Clearer numbers. You had me excited for a little bit, cause a genuine uptick on that front could mean a very different thing in terms of Brexit. Because Wales is the only other UK nation that voted leave. I’m very interested in the idea of Independence/Reunification as an analog for changing opinions on Brexit. And how Brexit might feed Idependence/Reuinification.

So when I saw your first link cited 12% it just seemed so much lower than I expected.

But yeah that’s a big uptick.

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I don’t have anything political to say, just…
salt_vampire
Uncanny!

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You don’t want to rely on the US. We don’t honor our agreements. Also: chlorinated chickens.

Corbyn was the man of the hour 3 years ago. Now he’s a significant liability for Labour, and – by extension – the country. Unfortunately, this is only obvious to people outside his inner circle.

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At this point, I’m almost thinking that any sort of deal is a bad outcome, as it will allow a chance for Boris to get away with it.

We are at the stage where the UK almost needs to crash out without a deal, to bring home to people the realization of just how badly Westminster has fucked up.

I don’t want the inevitable suffering that Brexit will bring, but I don’t know what else could shake people from their complacency about an utterly broken political system and get them demanding change.

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To be fair on th DUP (which due to their forced birth young earth creationism and general bigotry is not something they offer others) if they don’t reject this deal they are going back on pretty much everything they said. Which with sufficient silver on their palms could still happen.

So I don’t blame them. I blame the tories which is where the blame lies for so many reasons.

Today’s random reason: if you are going to say a referendum is the will of the people and Parliament can’t get in the way you must, instead of using this as a fascist power grab, negotiate with opposition parties immediately and all along the way to find a solution you can all back to implement this.

But the tories are nothing more nor less than fascists.

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My style of negotiation when I manage a project and have to decide between conflicting interests is to try to reach an agreement that leaves everybody slightly disappointed

It is not easy and requires a lot of back and forth but in the long run it creates a culture of cooperation and looking beyond keeping scores. I am not interested in confrontation or “the game”, just getting the job done with the least grief.

Problem with brexit from the UK point of view is that the mixed emotions and politics into a technical exercise, this is why the EU has been able to manoeuvre the process to their advantage.

The EU regulatory alignment is not only applied in Europe, you would be surprised how many countries adopt it because is considered one of the best and also facilitates exporting to the EU. Also, to legislate in certain areas is quite complex and requires a lot of resources and expertise that many countries do not have, so is cheaper and faster to just adopt European standards.

So this idea that the UK could just abandon the current regulatory framework and just start signing trade agreements left and right does not compute.

The only benefit could be a theoretical trade agreement with the US but that would require complete destruction of the legal framework built in the last 40 years and adoption of a new one, prior to at least 10 years of negotiations.

This is saying, “you are going to immediately loose 48% of your sales to clients just 50 miles away but in 10 to 15 years you might have access to a market 5000 miles away and then you can start competing with the rest of the world and try to sell there”

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Fun Fact Friday: If Joe Lieberman attempts to run as a Democrat, we’re legally allowed to run him out of town on the rails.

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