New York Governor Kathy Hochul says it is Israel's right to destroy Gaza

You… you have that already.


No, we really don’t. We have one party that has a mix of leftists, progressives, liberals, centrists, and a few outright conservatives. And then we have a party of mostly conservatives who have allowed a minority of fascists to take over the party. Stop both sidesing this shit.


This is not both siding. Far from it. This is simply how it looks from across the pond.


By any comparison with first world democracies, the USA’s politics is severely skewed to the right. Germany’s CDU could be considered to be to the left of the Democratic party, and they’re the main right wing party there.


This doesn’t mean the the Democratic Party is a conservative party. Certainly not compared to the GOP. It perpetuates the myth that both parties are just as bad, and that attitude keeps people from voting. Our Democrats may not be on the left on a global scale, but they are nowhere close (yet) to the GOP. There is still a big difference. And they’ve been moving to the left in recent years. I want to build on that momentum, not stop it. And that’s what I’m saying about my fears with groups like the Lincoln Project. And Democrats like Hochul and Mayor Adams in NYC.


You know- the last time the U.S. was at war with Canada they burned the White House.

Gov - you’ve just gave support for Palestinians to say they should destroy Israel. Maybe you should correct your misstatement; as the pols say.


Okay, well, @danimagoo is telling people it’s more complicated than that. :woman_shrugging:

Or actively participating in the process itself, too. Of course, a 2 party system is not ideal, but it’s what we have right now.

Samuel L Jackson Reaction GIF by The Academy Awards


I’m glad Hochul is not in any position to guide foreign policy. I’m also glad she has identified herself so clearly as a garbage person. I hope people remember next time she comes up for an election.


And by the way, I said what I said previously to indicate that the GOP doesn’t have monopoly on “being stupid” (though the right-GOP seems to corner the market on stupid) , and that even though someone tends to be in a party, that one should think critically and not give a pass to someone just because one tends to vote to vote a certain way.

Ok. I wasn’t referring to your comment.


Canada (or at least the British provinces that would become Canada) did attack the United States in 1812. They even burned down Washington.

Today our countries not only coexist peacefully as allies and trade partners, we also share the longest undefended border in the world. Thank goodness there were people on both sides who understood the value of diplomacy back then.




I’m counting the War of 1812 as with Canadia as well.


Ah, missed that one.




In a statement on Friday night, Hochul said she regretted “using an inappropriate analogy that I now realize could be hurtful to members of our community,” and she apologized for her “poor choice of words.”

“Gosh, sorry if your feelings were hurt when I suggested you should be genocided. [/innocent expression]”

Christ, what an asshole. It’s not just “hurtful to members of our community,” nor even just the inhabitants of Gaza (or Canada, for that matter) - it’s hurtful to notions of international law and basic humanity.

Leaving aside that Israel doesn’t have a “right to self defense” when it comes to territory they occupy, and “self-defense” isn’t genocide; it’s a pretty damn weird flex to justify it by saying, “Oh yeah, if some Canadians attacked us, we’d commit war crimes on a scale no one has ever seen!” It’s clearly not true, for one, and no one would put up with it if the US tried it, putting it in stark contrast with the current situation.

Given that history, surely the consistent thing would be for the US, in a response to an attack by Canadians, to wipe out Mexico. I.e. the country that members of the racist right in the government are already chomping at the bit to attack.

Right, but by developed nation standards, we have two parties: the centrist left/conservative Democratic party, and the now extremely far-right Republican party. That the Republicans have gone full fascist shows there’s definitely a wide divide between the parties, more extreme than perhaps any time in history, despite having similar/same positions on a lot of issues. (That reality also demolishes the other “both sideism” claim from the right, that somehow the Democrats are the extreme left mirror image of the Republicans.)

Apparently they were wrong, and we should have murdered everyone in Canada, though?


That is completely discounting the progressive wing of the party. Is that wing in charge? Of course not. But they do exist, and they have been successful in nudging the Democrats to the left. For about the 100th time, the Biden Administration has probably been the most progressive US Presidential administration since LBJ, and this talk about “both parties are conservatives” discourages people on the left from voting. And I’m sick of it. We’re trying to push the needle to the left, not slam it all the way against the left wall in a single year. That’s not going to happen. Encourage the nudging, don’t discourage it. Also, it’s not like the UK political landscape hasn’t moved considerably to the right in the last 20 years. Because it has. As have a number of other developed nations (looking at you, France!). This problem of a conservative shift is not isolated to the US. Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy…they all have their conservatives and far right parties, and they’ve all made gains over the last few years.


This. And for people who would like to see more parties and a break from the two-party system, their best bet is with the implosion of the GOP. If the conservatives and true fascists have a nasty breakup, it leaves room for Dems to build more direct voter engagement and higher turnout, which in turn can amplify progressive voices.

The people who get on the “both parties are the same” bandwagon aren’t working towards more parties, they are working towards one party.


I, too, am from the Olde Worlds, across the Pond, and, even with my failing eye-sight, I can see clear differences between the Donkey and the Elephant. The Donkey is far more my animal.


I don’t think anyone is saying that the Donkey and the Elephant are the same, or even that the Donkey isn’t better than the Elephant in pretty much every respect.

There is, however, a lot of variability on both sides as well. (Although I get the strong impression that there’s no longer much, if any, overlap any more. The furthest left Republican is much further right than the farthest right Democrat. (At least, now that Sinema is Independant.) The GOP ranges from fascist enabler to fascist, of a rainbow of different fascist flavours.

The Democratic party has a wider spread, but it’s constrained by the Overton Window. You have AOC and Bernie, sure, but while they get to nudge policy sometimes, but the main policy isn’t set by them. The average Dem, and the Democratic Party’s platform, would in almost every other country on earth count as center-right at best.

That’s not both-sidesism: I’ll take center-right over fascist every day of the week.

And it’s not discounting the left of the Democrats. Like everyone says, the best way to support them is for USians to vote D in every election. Give folk like Bernie and the Squad more power, and help them push the Overton window back.

As far as I can see, the best solution would be for the Republican Party to destroy itself in humiliation and ignomy, and for the Democratic Party to split into left and right parties, around an actual center. But what would I know. I am just one of the billions of people affected by US politics, soaking in US media. It’s not like I get a say in any of it.


The point isn’t that they are alike. Nobody in their right mind would claim this.

It used to be, to paraphrase Beyond the Fringe, that “America has the Republican Party, which is their version of the Conservative Party, and the Democratic Party, which is their version of the Conservative Party.” A satirical aggravation, but not that far from the truth. And this was maybe not ideal, but quite alright most of the time, just as long as everybody remained remotely sane.

Whereas now the Republican Party is openly fascist. There is no other way to put it.

While even the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is, overall, still to the right of most European conservative parties. (Not the Tories, obviously.)

And should the next American president be Donald Trump again, we’re all fucked one way or another.