Ah. Thank you for that clarity. Yes, I agree with that distinction. And I feel that we, as outside observers, have no way of knowing which he falls into, and that his doctor would probably be better suited to understanding and treating this.
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The behavior is so beyond fucked up that there has to be something that completely skewed the guy’s brain in horrible ways. The cause of this needs to be found and treated if at all possible, or even if not, studied for future benefit from that research.
The kid needs help… and isolation from society until thtat help has been deemed able to let him function as a normal human being and… well… not LITERALLY raping babies.
Because… God in heaven What the Actual Fuck.
WITH THAT SAID. What the judge is quoted as saying is beyond mind bendingly fucked up. Kids in jail for murder, yet you have someone literally sticking their dick into a baby and… ‘that is not the appropriate action we need to take here.’ Is…
I agree we need to rehab and if nothing else study this person’s mind, but…
Brain isn’t wording right now.
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The Bureau of Justice Statistics (which collects such data under the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003 (PREA)) seems to suggest that State facilities are where most of the sexual assaults take place. Altogether some depressing documents, so I’ll leave the statistical artistry to someone else.
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Have you seen Oz? I recommend it to anyone that wants to be educated on how prison is for the general population. Granted the show is old and has inaccuracies it does show how shitty prison is and how it can change someone, or further push them. It’s one of those shows i think could do well coming back and being updated, its message is still relevant today… probably more so now than ever.
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Just once by accident.
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Oz was set in a fictional experimental facility and has almost no bearing on “how prison is” for the vast majority of inmates. It’s not a bad show, but it reps prison about as well as Shawshank Redemption or OITNB. Nobody at all wants to see what modern American prison is really like.
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Thank you! From the original post almost all through this thread seemed like nothing but a retributive view of prison. Which doesn’t seem to help even the victims, never mind society at large.
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I get the desire for retribution, especially against people who do things as awful as this. I just think the data shows we’re better off as a society when we focus on “how to prevent people from committing horrible crimes” instead of “how to make sure that people who commit horrible crimes suffer for their deeds.”
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Yeah i know, that’s why i said it wasn’t accurate but it does capture what different particular people go through in prison, what got them there, and how being in the system often changes them for the worse.
OITNB was based off of Piper Kerman’s memoirs. I’m not sure how well it represents prison, because Kerman’s experiences were not typical, and because she was almost certainly taking liberties with the truth, but it was technically based off of a real prison experience.
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Back?
No. Forehead.
Honestly, and what I don’t see reflected in the various comments, is that he most likely is incapable of being rehabilitated. He didn’t steal a car. He didn’t sell crack. He raped a baby and was planning another. This is such a severely damaged human that, in my opinion, the only truly safe option here is to remove him from society. I realize that he was himself a juvenile when he committed the act, but this isn’t a case of a teenager being stupid, or negligent. This is a case of a rabid animal being captured and then released. Humans that commit crimes of this level are not like the majority of the population. His most likely future is more acts of indefensible behavior, but he won’t be so willing to share with an audience. Persons such as this do not change. Their damage is permanent. I’m sorry that so many decent people who would vote for rehabilitation don’t like this message, but their decency would, likely, only allow this criminal a chance to act again. As for the judge, I think he should be removed.
If this was my baby, and the justice system allowed this outcome, I would consider it my duty to insure that this Kraigen Grooms was incapable of every committing such an outrageous crime ever again.
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This may be a dumb question, but doesn’t Colombia have to agree to extradition?
“Well, a crime is a crime. Why should we pay good money for jails just to keep criminals alive? Death to all crooks!”
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There’s no redemption to be had. Being locked away from the humanity he no longer deserves to be considered part of is the kindest he could expect.
The judge should be hounded out of his position. The audience should be hunted down like the rabid animals they are.
Yes, that was what I meant, though I now realize my post could be construed as pro-rehabilitation. I am not a psychiatrist and can’t say whether this kid could be rehabilitated, but it seems to me that the first consideration should not be “make him suffer” or “make him well” but “make sure no one else suffers from him.” After that outcome is secure, discuss what else you want. (Not “you” yourself, but the rhetorical “you.”)
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I like a mix of these responses.
See, I’d kill him. Sure, without blinking.
But the State? No, it should not.
I’m allowed my passion and vengence to the extent I will allow it. If it means I will face the courts myself then that must be a measure I’d take as I put him down in my anger and fear.
But the State must refrain, and if it is to serve justice and the people it must work at rehabilitation even if the convicted is bound by thier sentence to never see the light of day again. Library books and paints for a person sentenced to life without parole because of their cruel and inhumane actions is a form of justice.
Because that outlook lowers recividism, lessens the dehumanizing effects of incarceration on both sides of the bars, promotes social cohesion and all of that and more is the only hope the State has in delivering justice. That outlook doesn’t exist for some and not for others, it’s all or nothing.
Justice is delivering a world with less suffering and that’s all it is.
As it stands today privilege and repression are what we have in place of that, for the most part.
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"If this was my baby . . . "
You might want to read the Wapello County’s press release about this case. Especially because based on what it says, there are multiple inaccuracies in the way that this is being reported.
At least according to what they’re saying: “One of the most significant factors affecting the outcome of this case was
that the parents of the victim did not wish Grooms to go to prison or serve significant jail time. Their primary concern was that he receive treatment. While the Wapello County Attorney’s Office does not allow victims to dictate how we prosecute a case, the victim’s concerns and desires are taken into consideration in every case, and they had a
strong influence in this case.”
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It sounds like the Columbian president basically snuck them out of the country - against the wishes of the judicial system and the populace - when they started confessing and talking about ties a little too close to him… the Americans were only too happy to oblige.
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