NPR’s top news editor faces multiple sexual harassment claims

I get what you’re saying, but that’s my God, too. [waves Jewishly]

(Of course, the Christian gloss on that particular story is weird on a lot of vectors, and there’s commentary in the Mishnah that makes it less creepy. Context, etc. Still, it’s straight-up patriarchy. Ugh.)

I want to particularly point out your use of the term “conspiracy” here, as I think you’re approaching it from an angle I hadn’t before considered. On the micro level…I mean, yeah. Shitty dudes covering for other shitty dudes. But there’s a macro version that has to do with law and tradition and all kinds of baggage that is useful to examine in that light. Thanks.

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Yeah, I mean haven’t we had this “democratized” media landscape for going on a decade now?

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This topic is temporarily closed for 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.

Everyone take a deep breath.

The statistics on these issues are abundantly clear. Rape goes unreported, unprosecuted, or dressed up as character assasination enough that anyone here who wants to step up and suggest that more scrutiny is required is missing the point. That ship has sailed. Judicial scrutiny and taking people at their word are not the same thing.

We are lucky enough to have a strong contingent of posters identifying as female here on the BBS, many of which have chosen to share their stories involving violence against their gender. Shouting them down with “more evidence needed”, “you’re arguing it wrong”, or “yes, but what about the edge cases?” is, in the opinion of this mod, an attempt (intentional or not) of diminishing what is being said surrounding these issues.

Violence against women, and especially sexual violence, is a completely unnecessary category of crime that is depressingly frequent and something that is uniquely understood almost universally better by one gender than the other. Please exercise restraint when responding, consider the people behind the posts you are responding to, and try to understand the positions of your fellow commenters. And remember, the gender balance on the BBS isn’t even close to 50/50. Please consider the under-represented responses from our female members with the appropriate weight in light of that fact.

I’ve cleaned out a significant portion of this thread. Lets hope I don’t need to do so again.

Thank you.

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Michael Oreskes is an actor?

Have you read this?

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Re: Believing he said she said.

There are two different “courts” if you will - the legal one - and the world around you.

The legal court IS required to have some evidence of proof in order for consequences. That is a fact and unfortunately justice isn’t always served.

The “world” court is another matter. If my daughter, or back in the day, my wife had come to me about someone being inappropriate with them, you bet you god damn life I’d believe them and there would be consequences. I believed my wife when she told me about a co-worker who was a sexual predator and the bizarre bullshit he pulled at work (like a trip with a female coworker and only booking one hotel room). I believe and ex-GF who was abused by her step father.

Yes, you’re right, there are false accusations out there. But it appears there are a TON more true accusations and even more that never get reported. (including by yours truly).

But in general I don’t have a reason to disbelieve someone who said such things about someone. I mean, in general, I think people tell the truth about these things. I suppose in SOME cases the incident might be too far fetched to be believable, and in some very limited cases, the person accused might be so squeaky clean that it’s hard to believe. But even in those cases, they should be listened to and not automatically discredited.

I think, honestly, a lot of this is from personal fear of a false accusation. Let’s be honest, there are very vindictive people out there, especially where emotions and love is concerned, and this is a possible scenario (though I don’t know how LIKELY it actually is).

But, as a parent of a girl (to be a woman all to soon), and someone who has a mom, sister, and was married, if any female closed to me was abused or attacked, I’d want them to be able to come forward and not be met with a wall of doubt.

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My favorite biblical cartoon

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"At this moment when many people are realising the sheer scale of sexual harassment for the first time, some men have written about how these events have shaken them up and caused them to reflect.

Giles Coren, however, is concerned that putting “xx” kisses at the bottom of e-mails might lead to false allegations of sexual harassment – a tragedy that has befallen precisely no-one, nowhere. Yet I think Coren’s article demonstrates one reason why some men are distracted from the real problem of sexual harassment by the fear that a culture that increasingly listens to women will somehow get them into trouble.

Of course, a man may fear sexual harassment allegations because he sexually harasses people and a journalist in this position might use his platform to remind victims of his power, pre-emptively reducing any subsequent accusations in the public mind to “a few misplaced kisses”. Assuming Coren is innocent of this, he is doing a tremendous favour to abusers within his profession.

Reporting sexual harassment or violence (to the police, to employers, even telling friends) is immensely costly to victims. We fear being disbelieved and humiliated. We fear being believed and held responsible. We fear a sympathetic response that treats us as broken. We even fear causing harm to the heroes, friends, partners and family members who have hurt us. There’s rarely anything much to gain, except in sharing an experience and finding we are not alone.

I’ve argued all this with people who believe false-reporting is commonplace and they’ve responded, “But you credit such women with thinking logically!”

And I don’t – that’s my point. I do however credit the vast majority of people with not acting dramatically against their own interest and without possessing the extreme and sustained malice required to falsely accuse someone of sexual violence. The evidence suggests that sexual offences are falsely reported at about the same rate as other crime; so roughly speaking, for every invented rape the police heard about last year, two people pretended to have their bicycles stolen and another seven lied about burglaries. All of those are extraordinarily strange behaviours and while people do behave very strangely and innocent people are harmed, it happens so rarely the rest of us can afford to worry about more common problems. Such as sexual harassment, which almost every woman has experienced and most of us on multiple occasions.

Giles Coren must have read enough about Weinstein to understand that his crimes go beyond unattractive in possession of a libido. None of those #metoo stories last week involved being smiled at by an unsexy colleague. But I think Coren has tapped into a problem in our culture which allows men to be distracted by their personal self-image and to perpetuate myths about the ambiguity of sexual crimes.

The answer is and always has been to listen to women.

https://www.thefword.org.uk/2017/10/why-are-men-so-worried-about-false-allegations/

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Spacey is.

Well… I guess that depends on who ya’ ask.

But this article is, perhaps somewhat oddly, not about Spacey.

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Ah, I see the problem, I wasn’t nearly specific enough in my initial response; apologies for that. I blame it on decongestants and sinus misery. Yeah, an editor certainly could foist off his work onto his staff.

This topic is temporarily closed for 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.

Ok, lets try this one more time, and try to discuss the topic, not those discussing the topic.

Thanks.

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You’re misinterpreting me as making excuses for rapists. I am not. A rapist blinded by lust is still responsible for their own actions, just like a murderer blinded by rage. If you can’t control your base impulses, you need to be removed from society.

What I’m saying is that punishing rape after the fact is necessary but not sufficient. If we want to stop rape from happening, we need to understand why people rape, and oversimplifications like “rape is only ever about power” obscure what’s really going on in these people’s heads.

Here’s a better discussion than I could muster.

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Jem and the Holograms is biblical? :wink:

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I think we can probably all agree on this, at least:

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