Why assume that they don’t realize the full implications of what they were supporting?
As far as I can tell from my admittedly very distant vantage point Republican voters seem to clearly understand what they are supporting and if anything would like their elected representatives to go further.
Are there swathes of confused Republican voters who don’t understand that their party wants to ban abortions or promote an explicitly evangelical, pro-gun agenda?
Does this work in reverse? Do we assume all Democratic voters are clear on the implications of all policies?
This is part of the problem affecting any discourse on these topics the belief that “if you believe in x, then you must believe in a/b/c and all other positions held by your party” is why conversation ends up so polarized in the first place. But it does a terrific job of chilling conversations as a whole.
How am I supposed to have a conversation with someone who doesn’t think I’m a human being, but a walking incubator? Are POC meant to do all the heavy lifting on dialogues around race? Are the LGBQT+ community meant to do all the work in reminding people they are human beings deserving of equal protection under the law? Why is it that republicans aren’t expected to do the work of understanding all angles of an issue and the ramifications of it? Why are they afforded greater empathy than the rest of humanity and never be held accountable for what their vote means?
I think they know a lot more than you’re giving them credit for, though. It’s not like the information isn’t out there or that there isn’t historical evidence to draw from about the issue. It doesn’t take a few seconds to google what the implications are for banning all abortions. 
If they can’t do the basic minimum that we’re expected to do, why should we take them seriously as people who are part of a democratic system. The reality is that a not-insignificant portion of the GOP are now just fine with regressive policies that hurt people who they see as not being like them.
Nope. Because Republicans rely entirely on fear, hysterics, bigotry and baser appeals for their positions.
So does calling someone a baby killer, demanding control of their bodies, lying like a cheap rug at every opportunity to support your ideas and tacit support of murder & terrorism to further your goals.
Fuck’em. I don’t want a conversation with fetus worshipers. I want them held accountable for their garbage for once. I want them as embarrassed to voice their ideas as a segregationist would be today. That doesn’t come from dialogue and accommodation. That comes from confrontation and righteous anger.
Yeah, I know too many people who proudly voted for Trump and are anti-choice but have had abortions themselves or paid for their girlfriends to have abortions…they know full well they’re denying human and civil rights to others. They’re not innocent dupes.
“Why are you being so dramatic?” say the people with nothing on the line.
Maybe some, but when I discuss this stuff with people, that’s not at all the case.
It doesn’t matter what they believe. I’m not trying to force them to get an abortion, for example. As others have said, if they believe that’s wrong, they don’t have to do that.
What matters is them trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else, so it makes it really hard to discuss, for sure. I try to use examples to show them what their intended policies mean to real people. That approach worked really well in the Maine campaign to legalize same sex marriage. (That topic might be a place to look to learn more about successfully changing peoples opinions on policy.)
But I also don’t expect everyone to take the time with them.
In other stuff, like environmental issues, people can still get quite emotional, but it’s a lot easier to keep coming back to the facts.
Not everyone takes up a harmful position because they are ignorant, tricked or just meant well. Many do it because they are just hateful assholes.
Lots of people do it because they don’t think it’s harmful. Especially not to them.
Obligatory:
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
For a given value of “good”, of course.
The goal of many of these voters is the creation of a theocracy. That is the stated and intended goal. They are looking to places like Russia and Hungary as their model (and although unstated, they are probably looking at Islamic theocracies, too). The reporting on the brutality of those places are easy to find and not at all in dispute. They are all too aware that LGBQT+ people, people of different religions (Jewish people in Russia, for example, or refugees fleeing western-started wars), and women are having their rights restricted. It’s been well-covered, even by the more mainstream right wing media, like fox. That is what they want to replicate here and we know because they’ve said as much.
Absolutely true. They are also the ones who get the most airtime and play, because it creates drama and attention. I just covered how this same group are the ones that poison online discourse and make the future of decentralized communities like Mastodon doomed to fail.
I can see that but the problem is that we are in a system (and always will be) where voting for a party does require voting for all of their policies.
Quite. I’ll happily accept that not every voter will understand the implications of obscure parts of party manifestos such as technical details of tax provisions but an issue such as abortion or gun control doesn’t really have much nuance to it - if only because one party has made sure that there can be no nuance for its supporters.
Abortion and gun control are black and white issues for Republicans as far as I can see. Their platforms on those points are complicated or unclear. They’re against both - vehemently and firmly. In any circumstances.
Voting for a Republican means voting on those policies. There may be all sorts of complicated and nuanced policies also in play but those two are simple and clear.
There may be no clear alternative vote for those who like the other policies but disagree on abortion and gun control but voting for Republicans because you like the other policies does also mean endorsing abortion bans and school shootings.
And given their propensity for spamming, sockpuppets and gish gallops, it highlights the need for active moderation at some levels.
It also shows people what their goals are, and so it’s not like other voters aren’t unaware of that. If they honestly believe, after what’s been happening in TX and FL, that what they say are just empty rhetoric, like honestly BELIEVE that to be the case, then I don’t know what to say. They’ve said what they want to do, and now they are doing it. One would have to be awfully ignorant or gullible to look at what is actually happening and NOT understand that this was the intent and that they intend to take the whole place over (meaning all of the US).
And if people still are voting for the GOP, while saying that they do not like the more extreme policies, then why the fuck are they voting for them? It’s often because they actually believe what they’ve been told about the Democrats. They are not doing their own research, but just going along with whatever they’ve been told is true.
And they’ve been screeching about for literally YEARS now. YEARS.
And the GOP has not platform other than theocracy, hate, guns, and tax cuts. That’s it. They have not put out a platform of any kind since 2016, because they KNOW that their base doesn’t care and won’t read it, because they just want to tear down others.
They should be told that they are voting for the emiseration of large swaths of their fellow Americans, then.
The triple negative is bending my mind blade. Can you restate, please? I can’t quite get it.
And, lame excuse, but I’ve been out in the sun. Fried my brain.
Theocracy or not, as that isn’t always the loudest part, it is most definitely about autonomy; who deserves it and who doesn’t.
(Hint: If you’re not a white, straight Christian male then it’s probably not you.)
If your church lets you treat other people as things, hurt them, mistreat them, other them then you are in the wrong.
I mean, I think they have been told that. Repeatedly. What can one conclude except that they either don’t believe that or that it is fine with them?
And since Republican politicians specifically say that they are looking forward to the misery and anguish they are going to cause/are causing, it’s hard to see how anyone can truthfully say they don’t understand that misery and anguish is intended.
Basically, I’m saying that their regressive social policies are up front and center in their rhetoric, so people know what they are advocating for. They are voting in favor of those policies or they just don’t give a shit about other people who aren’t them… they just want a tax cut, and the rest of us can live in a regressive hell-scape.
And it’s not like there aren’t people pushing back against these regressive policies in the evangelical movement, too. But those voices are getting attacked and shut down by the leadership of that movement.
Thanks! I figured I got the overall angle, but coming in from the garden and trying to work it out was like
But with a sunburn and bug bites.
