NYT's horrifying video of hateful Trump rally attendees

I guess we are speaking different languages. I appreciate you referring me to Neil Irvin Painter, but she is a historian. The table I presented was from a book by an Osteologist and Paleoanthropologist. I asked my wife (a physician) about how race applies to her assessing risk for disease, and she referred me here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15257843
I really am not talking about “whiteness” or "blackness’ in the same cultural terms that you seem to be. And I accept that many people are not easily classified by race. But if your doctor speaks to you about race and heart disease, he or she is not trying to oppress you. It may simply be that they are trying to use best practices to assess your risk for disease. Here is a statement from the American Heart Association:
“Many racial/ethnic minority populations have higher rates of CVD and related risk factors. The statistics are stark testimony to that fact.•CVD age-adjusted death rates are 33% higher for blacks than for the overall population in the U.S. •Blacks are nearly twice as likely to have a first stroke and much more likely to die from one than whites.1•American Indians/Alaska Natives die from heart disease much earlier than expected – 36% are under 65 compared with only 17% for the U.S. population overall.”

So people who take the political position that race does not exist, especially those who exhibit rage towards those who believe differently, put scientists and physicians in a difficult position. A physician who ignores race as a factor in determining risk of disease is putting their patients in danger. A forensic examiner who does not take into account racial characteristics of the remains that they are tasked with identifying is performing their job negligently. A Hematologist who decides to focus a large percentage of their research budget on studying Sickle cell disease among Nordic peoples, because they believe race is a construct, is wasting money and effort that could be saving lives. It is very strange to me that we are coming into an age where political expediency has begun to compromise data driven science. It is similar to a geologist or physicist who has to interact with or work for Fundamentalist Christians. Geology as a predictive science, such as oil exploration, requires the understanding that the earth is more than 6,000 years old, so does the study of light and radiation. When those hard scientists have to interact with people who are convinced of biblical literalism, they have to tread very lightly to avoid conflict. I find it very depressing.

2 Likes

But you continue to neglect to take into account the cultural designation that lead to such biological categorizations.

It is tempting to just say “I give up, you win”. But I think that is the purpose behind such tactics. It is good to oppose racism, but the tactic of fighting racism just by arguing " not only is racism wrong, but lets say from now on that race itself is an imaginary construct, and scream profanities at anyone who disagrees". It does not solve the problem of racism, just like Screaming that there is no famine does not keep anyone from starving. It is an ugly, Stalinesque tactic.
You may personally believe that there is no such thing as race, or that the universe is 6000 years old, or any number of other faith based beliefs. I have no issue with that. But I don’t have to agree with you, and I don’t want you editing science textbooks to conform with your beliefs.
Even if your tactics succeed, and it goes so far that all those chapters mentioning race are torn from the textbooks and forgotten, there will still be people doing the tedious work of observable and predictive science. Eventually, one of those osteologists will discover that the height of a human being can be determined with reasonable accuracy from just the measurable characteristics of a femur. But only when one includes a numeric factor for the person’s race and sex.
So even if I don’t see the point of continuing this discussion endlessly, I do not just give up. I have had history discussions with people who honestly do not believe that there is such a thing as an objective fact. I disagree. And in the long run, you have to lose. Because even thousands of years from now, when apes rule the earth, Dr. Zaius will discover that he can determine with reasonable accuracy the height of a human from only a fossilized femur, as long as he factors in you-know-what.

MB

What on earth are you arguing with? There are genetic markers for specific native persons, certain “eastern” trends, but that does not make race as seen and assigned much less arbitrary.

You are intentionally conflating science with very specific applications of of science and it is particularly odd how you can not tell the difference between commonplace definitions of race and where actual markers lie. What your son is being taught in school is not what you are arguing forth here.

1 Like

Here is a Pikachu Kitten.

2 Likes

This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.