Ongoing coronavirus happenings

We agree on that, too.

In this case, we have a different situation, though.
I did not call for banning links to peer-revied science.
I asked (still do) not to share the SCMP piece on the BBS, which is not BB. This is a community thing. Not an editorial/auhor’s piece. FTR, if any of the BB authors/editors shared such a shit piece of corona pop sci, I would be dissapointed and say so express my righteous anger in the comments. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
The article did not include a link to the original publication. It furthermore claimed that there is more evidence, again without a link. And when I checked for that evidence, it was also fishy, and not science. Then I read the short comm and was sceptical.

If the general public is confused, the least I can do is to call out terrible reporting when I take note. In this case, I am also sceptical about the evidence presented in the original publication, and presented my reasoning. I do this stuff here on the community forum as well as with my personal contacts whenever possible. I did this in March

The ‘fact’ that Covid-19 was in France in December already went up and down the newsfeeds. Just try google news:


This is google news. German sources only. I counted: 42 out of them can be considered ‘trusted’ news outlets (:cough: and I even count the Kronen Zeitung amongst those :face_vomiting: ), the rest is stuff like RT and Sputnik news. This doesn’t fit on one screen.

I stand by my ‘fucking nightmare of a PR disaster’ stance, and I’ll try to explain a bit why I am angry about the press coverage for this study.

I think that the news telling people that Covid-19 was in Europe already in December or even November feeds right into the conspiracy bullshit that this virus came out of a lab, was spread using the international military games, and was already in the population much before the lockdown measures were coming into place everywhere.

Even if you don’t go full nutter on this there will be plenty of people who did have respiratory and other symptoms between November and March. We call it the influenza season, but this is a general respiratory disease season. I was already discussing with people who say they suspect that they already had it in febuary.

With we are right in the middle of the herd immunity discussion which will not be resolved until we test large amounts of people for (I think multiple!) specific IG-G antibodies.

On a personal note:
I was myself in an ER on the 22nd of December after a month of corticosteroids which didn’t help with my cough, and was diagnosed as “we don’t know what’s the reason, but there’s definitely something wrong, you should see a pulmonologist”. I again fell ill on February 20th, I know how it feels to be uncertain about being infected. In Feburary, I knew about the virus already. I actually met my sibling who just had returned from China (not Wuhan) during that period, but after falling ill.
I also know about the uncertainty if I had infected others. After meeting my sibling, and still having one of the worst colds since 2010 (but not with symptoms discussed as differential diagnostic traits) and co-hosted a conference I had helped to organise for >80 people.
Shortly afterwards, some colleagues I had close contact with fell ill with the same symptoms I had. (Which were not like Covid-19, but still hard on them.)

I learned from that. This also influences my perception and reaction to news as well as new scientific evidence in regard to SARS-CoV-2.

I hope this personal note also explains why I am so insistent in my opinion that we should not spread news articles like this one from the South China Morning Post. While I can’t keep up with everything, this case caught my attention quickly.

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Ok, mabe to early to faucipalm, I need to ask instead:
do people in Finland wear masks already even though they are not compulsory?

And, FTR: my last visit to Finland was in the last millenium. Back then, the people I had contact to were even more distanced than people in Germany and (parts of) Switzerland. And we aren’t exactly keen on people coming into our personal space…

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I can’t answer for Finland, but here in Norway they are not compulsory, discouraged rather, and I see maybe one mask-wearer every 3 days or so. This does not bother me at all outdoors, since it is easy to maintain large distances there (and this was a social norm in Norway even before the virus), but I do get a bit stressed in stores by the no-mask norm.

Upthread @vermes82 posted an article which said that with social distancing policies in Finland community contacts were down to an average of 2.5/day per person. That kind of shocked me, as I think this is a very high number, though it depends on what they include in the count.

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I appreciate where you are coming from, but feeding conspiracies is pretty unavoidable, at least in the US. Maybe this is more of a unique problem in Germany.

The narrative that everyone with a cold or flu last fall really had Covid had a lot of traction in the US as well, and probably did contribute to the delayed shutdowns in most of the country. However, that is well past, I don’t see it having that kind of effect anymore. Today I am more worried about the influence of some tweets a week ago by Muge Cevik at St. Andrews. The tweets themselves were OK, but as newspapers started to run stories on them, first in the UK and then in the US, they have increasingly been distorted into an anti-social-distancing message.

Here is a relatively sane article based on them, from what is probably the best newspaper in the US; I post it in part because it includes a link to her tweets:

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It’s also the wrong test to use to fight the spread of the infection. The body doesn’t produce detectable antibody levels for up to 10-14 days post-infection. By the time a case is detected using serological testing, they’ve already gone through their peak infectious period. It’s like trying to hit a major league fastball while wearing VR goggles with a 5 second lag.

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Some do most don’t.

We do tend to be 1-2m from people anyway and all the shops, metro stations, shopping centers etc have big bottles of hand sanitiser.


Rush hour metro Helsinki yesterday:

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Here we go again. Brace yourselves.

Nelson Teich, the brazilian minister of health, just resigned. Mr. Teich leaves the Ministry of Health before completing a month in office.

Teich sighs: It is difficult to reconcile Bolsonaro’s wishes with reality.

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Bolsonaro says chloroquine protocol should be changed this Friday.
Bolsonaro said the Ministry of Health should change the chloroquine protocol on Friday (15) after citing Mandetta’s administration.

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Asking the wrong person the wrong question. Chris Christie would clearly give up his whole family in order to be slightly more comfortable, much less for his ambition to be even a little bit more powerful.

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Take my money!

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When you have competent leadership that supports the work of experts, the pandemic is controllable:

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A test that false-negatives is still useful for general population survey, so long as it’s not massively wrong and doesn’t also false-positive. Just add the error bars, and carry on.

But it’s not the magic box purity test that the White House was using it as.

Moron

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I don’t think the Abbott ID NOW looks for antibodies, but tries to detect active virus.

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I buy that some White House staffers use that test, but there’s no way that Trump, Pence, Kudlow, Mnuchin, De Vos, and the rest of the privileged assholes get nasal swabbed each day. No way.

ETA: Sorry for responding that the Abbott ID NOW test is serological. That would be incorrect. I’m just highly skeptical that they are using that test for the prez, VP, and cabinet.

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Nicely said on Fbook by author Teju Cloe:

LOVE FOR ELDERS

Many of us obey the rules about distance and hygiene. We do so not mainly because we are worried about the disease’s effect on ourselves, but because we are concerned about others. We have a sense of shared responsibility toward the immunocompromised, or those who have health problems or who are older. Out of abundance of care for them, whose risk is so much greater than ours, we do what we need to do.

More and more, I have been hearing from some older people I know, and from some I don’t, a spoken fear: “I can’t get this disease. If I get it, I’ll probably die.” That’s so heavy, that sense of mortal threat. I heard it twice yesterday, for example. And how awful that there are sections of society, in speech or in writing, who loudly proclaim their ability to bear this cost (in other words, they are willing to bear the cost of someone else dying).

It must be distressing for older people to hear this kind of brutal disregard. If you are an older person (however you define that) and you’re reading this, please know that many of us, most of us, care about you. We revere our elders. We love you. You are beloved for your own sakes, and also because you represent a link to what is essential to us. You are the book of our memory and a guide to our future. Your lives are as important as ours. Your death is not a cost we are willing to bear or calculate or passively allow. And I’m very sorry you even have to hear the kind of awful language that suggests it is. Most of us want no part of that kind of everyday fascism—and we will do what we need to do, for as long as we need to do it, to protect you.

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How many deferments did he get? Four? Five? Maybe the bullets were less beautiful in '68?

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“Beautiful?” How the hell is this a “beautiful” image? Doctors, nurses or soldiers, dying is dying and nothing about it is beautiful. Especially for a draft dodging, germophobic coward like our own Il Douche.

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So, if this is actual reinfection and not just more FUBAR’d testing, the vaccine just got a lot more complicated.

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