Many authors seem to summarize the problem and solution as something to the effect that “pure secularity isnt the answer”
I cant link you the source because it was in a book but Style Scott (drummer of Roots Radics, Dub Syndicate, etc & RIP) used that word in the Jamaican patois sense which differs from how you seem to be implying.
It’s not about cookies and I’m not saying that it’s feminism’s responsibility to do anything (beyond what is anyone’s responsibility). However, I’m interested in effectiveness, not justification or fault finding. It isn’t the responsibility of feminism to look for positive examples and support them rather than just flagging negative behaviour, it’s just very much in feminism’s interests to have a society where men act like decent human beings. And the reason why many are not cannot just be written down to the idea that they’re naturally terrible people, or that women have no influence on men. It’s at least partly a learning and cultural issue that involves all of us.
These groups take men from where they are, and speak to their insecurities. With dangerous lies, but they’re often the ones who will form half-baked insecurities into an ideology. In many ways, feminism is there to do that for women, and for a young man MRAs could seem to be offering something similar.
I can see why this could seem like white het guy entitlement, but I see it more as a suggestion for more effective communication. Radicalized groups are very effective online and where feminist ideology fails to engage men, it doesn’t matter how justified feminists feel or whose fault it is. They will go somewhere else and become opponents when they could have been allies. They will also vote, and younger millennials are seeing a noticeable swing to the right against the trend for a number of decades. I do want to live in a more equal society, which is why I want to see what can be done to reverse this. It will involve seeing male culture and male groups as more than an existential threat to women, and learning to engage with them meaningfully.
ETA: in response to @Snowlark and some others: I recognise that my arguments could seem strident and unfair. That’s not my intention, but sometimes it can be better to be clear rather than softening everything with the nuance it deserves. I am generally not as clear when I try to be completely even-handed, but please assume that this is one more extreme narrative of several that I hold on this issue. I have plenty of my own insecurities and issues (including mood swings and paranoia, which I’ve mentioned elsewhere) and these can strongly influence my thinking. I’d also add that the reason I put any of these arguments forward is so that they can be challenged and because I like living in a society that is more feminist than the US in a few ways and want to see it and other societies improve – so I want the Trump and alt-right era to be as short and ineffective as possible.
I don’t blame feminism for the problems that exist and I think quite a bit of what we’re seeing now is an extreme form of the echo chamber effect where extremist ideologies can reinforce each other and reach people they couldn’t before at times when they are weak and developing their own ideologies. It doesn’t seem coincidental that ISIS, MRAs and other groups have a strong internet presence and use it to their advantage.
Why isn’t it in men’s best interests – also – to advance human culture by becoming more decent human beings? Why would you think that is only/mostly of concern to women? (Hint: lots of man-vs-man violence in this world, too.)
If you think men as a group are unable direct themselves to a higher level of decency and maturity, that’s actually a form of sexism.
Then your targeting is off and you are coming off as concern driving trollies here with “helpfulness”.
The issue isn’t that women aren’t hip to “mens rights”, the issue is that self-proclaimed “mens rights activists” aren’t interested in mens rights when it doesn’t involve actively removing equality from women.
That is absolutely not common talk among the well-adjusted and you need better friends if this comes up regularly.
Is there a national-level organization of men focused on promoting gender equality in law and society? And if not, can we create one? We could call it the League of Ordinary Gentlemen.
And most importantly, why does it have to be separate from feminism? Better treatment of men is hand in hand with feminism.
Shh…we’re calling it ‘gender equality’ so they can still feel like manly-mantastic men. (See also: marriage equality)
If the word “feminism” offends them, how are they going to work amongst themselves to fix what ails toxic masculinity, let alone how are they going to ask women for help?
Fairweather friends aren’t too interested in understanding the problems before them and we’re back to blaming women, in the previous example, entirely for rape culture.
But when is International Men’s Day?
Oh. It’s Nov 19th.
Apologies if this was misconstrued, I was discussing persons afraid to use “feminist”.
MRAs believe that there are unique issues with addressing male consent that exist in isolation, believing that women create this image of the hypermasculine fuck-machine and enforce it through toxic culture… when that is something the men need to work on as well.
Again, I am not speaking of you specifically here and I don’t doubt that our end-goals are the same. I also want everyone to come together, I just don’t see how it’s going to encourage a shared vocabulary so long a “feminism” is a dirty word and perceived as taking anything away from the men in question.
My greatest frustration here is the people who self-identify as MRA or “meninist” and have given the most setbacks to anyone who wants to change male culture from within.
It is the basic positioning of men in society, many have opted out but there’s so much that men need to do to tear down these systems for themselves.
?
Are we calling you a MRA or injecting the talking points into your mouth here?
We cheer on all attempts at gender equality, but we don’t generally see meninists outwardly taking on toxic masculinity so much.
My experience is that it is MRAs who are dismissing them as “cucks”.
Exactly. The issue is that men need to be less dismissive of men. Men set up these systems, and while there are women with consent issues (I have had the unfortunate experience of being on the receiving end of this, and certainly have opinions) there is not a systemic problem with this with women. It is occurring in conjoinment to (though I would not say imitation of) toxic masculinity and fixing what it is to be a “man” is more important and effective to me.
You certainly sound like you’re looking for an integrative solution here, what with all these preemptive and overbroad dismissals.
Mens’ issues require a honest self-assessment of male systems of power, not attacking that feminists “don’t listen to men” enough.
As we live in a patriarchical society, many to most of the issues we as men face are self-generated and perpetuated. Attacking feminism is not a productive vector.
Then why so much concern driving trollies if you don’t actually care?
Focus on the good stuff being done, stop chastising other active allies preemptively.
That’s the spirit! 
Stupid meds.
I’ve PMed @Phrenological, and I’m sorry to everyone else. I’ll bow out of the thread now.
I didn’t like your comment because I want you to leave, I liked it because I want you to stay.
No need to apologize on my account. Seemed to me pretty clear you were coming from a good place and just trying to kick ideas around, open things up a bit to try and fix what’s a pretty toxic mess.
Same same. 
Thank you both. As I said, I can get mood swings and paranoia, especially on my current medication. It’s worse when it’s so fast and erratic, and I can’t recognise my own moods (I spent half an hour a couple of nights ago trying to work out how I felt. I settled on intense, but not happy, sad or anything else). It’s not good when I see threats that aren’t there and the lizard brain takes over.
It would be toxic if Clinton were president elect – the kind of hatred that is shared openly is something beyond that. I hope we can find ways to counter this with solidarity, but sometimes sharing ideas can make it look like those suffering are to blame. I value you all as good friends, and I’m sorry if my comments made it seem like I thought otherwise. A big reason I’m here is because this is a place where I feel welcomed by feminists as a man.
