Why the mocking tone? If someone says they have a few books on carpentry or mathematics is that also something to be mocked?
Just as an FYI I dont recall anything about what clothing the person presenting the ID wearing had anything to do with it.
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No, saying one has a few books on carpentry is not something worthy of mockery. Attempting to use one’s collection of books on a topic as proof that one must be right, however, is.
I’ll take from your response that you really wouldn’t use the sex on the ID for anything at all.
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Without threat of force? Two words: Kim Davis.
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Alt-right version of this headline: “Oregon Drivers Forced to Promote Transgenderism!!!”
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“Hard working Oregonians forced to kowtow to liberal ‘alternative lifestyle’ agenda!”
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My New Zealand drivers license doesn’t have gender either.
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One reason it’s on driver’s licenses is that the Federal Real ID Act requires it. Data is required to be entered into the EVVE database. It’s unclear if EVVE allows a non-binary entry for gender. It doesn’t allow an indeterminate entry.
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Nor here in Victoria, Australia.
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That just pushes the question up one level. What is the actual reason? Is there one or was it just something that seemed to be the usual practice at the time the rule was made? As a software developer I see a lot of code that exists only because something was done that way before, I suspect that a lot of rules, regulations, and laws suffer from the same defect.
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Ok, as someone whose government issued ID, my driver’s license, has a gender marker currently inconsistent with my gender, I think I have some relevant observations to make about this. First, for context, I am a transgender woman, and had gender confirmation surgery in the recent past, and I have been presenting myself full time as a woman since 2008. I have not had all of my documentation updated to reflect this because a) I’m the world’s worst procrastinator, and b) I haven’t had the need to so far because I’m fortunate and privileged in my genetics that 99% of people just assume I’m a cisgender woman.
So, with that set up, a few people in this thread have implied some sort of need for a gender marker on ID. My ID says M in the gender field. It always has. I’ve never gotten around to changing it. This has caused me a problem so far on ZERO occasions. Not once in the past 9 years has my gender ever been questioned by a single person checking my ID. It has been checked in that time by store clerks, medical personnel, DMV personnel, bank tellers, human resources employees, law enforcement officers, and probably others I’m forgetting. Not one of those people has ever questioned the M on my ID, even though my name and appearance are clearly female. And it’s not like I live in a progressive place, either. I live in a Trump supporting, white collar suburb of Kansas City. Now, I’m fully aware that I’m privileged in this regard, and many, if not most, trans people have more problems with their ID. My point isn’t that we shouldn’t worry about ID issues, and it certainly isn’t that other trans people shouldn’t have ID problems because I don’t. Again, I’m fully aware of my own privilege on this issue. I’m lucky as hell. My point is this. If the gender marker on ID is so necessary, and is such a big deal, why has no one ever questioned mine? The reason why is, no one even looks at that stupid M or F if your name matches your appearance. And they don’t look because … IT DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER! The only time it matters to anyone is when your appearance doesn’t match what they expect. And unfortunately, the most likely people to get caught up in their unmet expectations are trans people, intersex people, and other gender nonconforming folk. That’s why this X gender marker is needed and important. It’s not going to fix anything overnight, but it will begin the process of educating more people in this country that gender is not a simple binary. Right now, the average American is still pretty clueless about this, and believes that gender is fixed, obvious, and binary. We need to continue to push on issues like this so those people begin to understand that gender can be fluid, ambiguous, and infinitely complex.
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I did some reading and it turns out that the act itself has not been universally adopted or settled. Several states have refused to comply, passing their own legislation in opposition of the act. Oregon is in the process of opting out.
"On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that state, and calls on Congress to repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137–4 and in the Maine Senate unanimous, 34–0.[44]
On February 16, 2007, Utah unanimously passed a resolution that opposes the REAL ID Act.[45] The resolution states that REAL ID is “in opposition to the Jeffersonian principles of individual liberty, free markets, and limited government”. It further states that “the use of identification-based security cannot be justified as part of a ‘layered’ security system if the costs of the identification ‘layer’—in dollars, lost privacy, and lost liberty—are greater than the security identification provides”:
“the “common machine-readable technology” required by the REAL ID Act would convert state-issued driver licenses and identification cards into tracking devices, allowing computers to note and record people’s whereabouts each time they are identified”
“the requirement that states maintain databases of information about their citizens and residents and then share this personal information with all other states will expose every state to the information security weaknesses of every other state and threaten the privacy of every American”
“the REAL ID Act wrongly coerces states into doing the federal government’s bidding by threatening to refuse noncomplying states’ citizens the privileges and immunities enjoyed by other states’ citizens”
Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Washington have joined Maine and Utah in passing legislation opposing Real ID.[46][47][48][49][50][51]
Similar resolutions are pending in Alaska, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.[52]"
But again, that the gender requirement is part of a database isn’t an indicator of actual utility or neccessity.
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Once you have a photo on a driving licence, the question of gender should surely become irrelevant? Cars don’t come in male, female and unspecified.
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The only hint on the UK licence is in the TITLE . Mr Mrs or Ms
Why should someone need to know your gender?
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Have you guys / gals / human beings played Papers, Please?
There is a thought provoking examination of “official gender designation” in that game delivered in a delightfully unexpected way. I recommend giving it a shot if you haven’t played it yet. I believe it is in all the expected app and game stores.
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You summed it up nicely. I tried and failed to make that point earlier. I’m genuinely happy that you haven’t had a problem to date.
That and the following regarding common machine-readable technology also makes clear why for some reason India can do this but the US can’t. Thank you for doing the research.
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I applaud this effort, but I think X (or Y) is an odd choice for a letter. It’s one of the sex specific chromosomes, I suppose it’s the one we share. There is also a connotation of X-rated.
A neutral letter, like E would have been better.
We don’t have any of that stuff here in Norway. I thought the UK had European standard licences now. Which numbered section is TITLE in?
Section 1 - Surname
Section 2 - Title and first Names.
That is on the card licence - we don’t have a paper part anymore.
That’s really odd. As far far as I can see that field is for “other names”. There appears to be no provision in the standard for titles. My research is limited to looking it up on Wikipedia so perhaps someone else can find something more definitive.
