I generally respect yours as well. I think we’ll have to simply disagree on this one. I find most “American” food and music to be rip-offs of other cultures’ heritage. Usually I go along with the melting-pot rhetoric for diplomacy’s sake and a general belief that it’s a mostly harmless illusion in day-to-day life. But another hero of mine died yesterday and I’m in a truly foul mood. As such I think I shall recuse myself of this thread, drown a nightcap and hit the hay for the night.
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http://www.langloisnola.com/creole-cajun-history/
No, no, no. They were the result of immigration and integration, not appropriation.
Jesus, have you had new England food!? Lump lobster rolls are not bland. Clam chowder–cream based and Manhattan-- isn’t bland. A clam bake is bland?
Name three native American dishes. I dare you.
New York pizza is better than most Italian pizza. Yes, this is true.
And to English cookery:
Kippers.
Beef Wellington.
Forced rhubarb.
Trifles.
Cumberland sausage.
Black pudding.
Roast beef–yes, the brits taught the normans to roast a joint properly!
Laugoustines.
Pork lie.
Short crust.
(I can go on… :D)
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I was a bit snarkier than I like to you. My apologies. You were just offering a lively debate and didn’t deserve to be flambéed.
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That’s a longer discussion. Immigrant cooking’s transformation into corporatized mass culture didn’t happen over night, but it did happen
I disagree, but that’s very much a matter of taste, and I could well be in the minority.
Tortillas, chocolate, goacamole.
Oh my yes, but the “American” styles of pizza (New York and Chicago) began with Italian immigrants. Itallian pizza is…lacking. Yet trying to find real New York or Chicago style pizza in American today is harder than tracking down Ponce de León’s Fountain of Youth.
We have…very different tastes in food. Still you’re always welcome to share a glass of Scotch over my barbecued brisket.
Cheers and g’nite.
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Chicken Waffles dude. Chicken Waffles.
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BZZZZZT!
Those are Mesoamerican dishes!
- Tortillas are probably Mayan, and if not we can give credit to the Aztecs for that.
- Chocolate is also mesoamerican. Probably Olmec.
- Guacamole was first seen by the Spanish when they encountered the aztecs… but since the Avocado originated in Central America, the origin of mashed avocado salad remains a mystery for now.
The judges would have accepted:
- Any of the Three Sisters (Maize, Beans & Squash)
- Corn or Hominy grits
- Livermush or chitterlings
- Succotash
- Wojape
- File powder
- Frybread
- Beef Jerky
- Cornbread/pone
This list is also pretty bad because I didn’t even separate these out by region/major cultural traditions, and I didn’t include anything Inuit, though one could argue that might be Canadian First Peoples food.
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(I did throw that one out as kind of a trick question, cause I was feeling sassy :D. Pacific whale would also count.)
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I say we get together for a good old fashioned cookoff 
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You’re probably thinking of Mrs. Butterworth, whose ethnicity is ambiguous.
EDIT: Whoops, beaten to it. That’ll teach me to read all the comments before posting.
Oh, who am I kidding, no it won’t.
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Actually, what is commonly thought of as “French food” outside of France (“Haute Cuisine” as they call it sometimes) takes its roots around Lyon and was more influenced by Italian cuisines than Spanish or German ones. In reality, France being a very diverse hodgepodge of climates and soils for such a small territory, its cuisines vary quite wildly from one region to another, with cross-pollination with neighbors, of course. The traditional use of oil, lard or butter is one such variation, with butter being salted or not as one subvariation, etc.
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You missed the point. When other countries do it, it’s learning from one another. When Americans do it, it’s genocide. Pasta is a good example.
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But but but… boiled meat!
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No, the pitcher is immaterial. You need the right kind of Kool Aid.
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I’d argue dried meat is pretty universal really.
Isn’t she from Mondas?
ETA: Mary Kay Bergman was the voice actress for Mrs. Butterworth in the 90s:
And she was played by a white guy in the first TV advert in the 60s:
Her claims to be “big, rich and buttery” give the game away too:
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Since all Americans were “imported from other countries,” you could make this argument about anything Americans make or do. And, similarly, you could say that about any food anywhere in the world, except maybe Kenya.
But it’s a stupid argument to suggest that the cuisines developed and refined over hundreds of years in a country aren’t their own.
Can you name any non-African food or music that isn’t a rip-off of another culture’s heritage? Even Italian food, which is where I grew up, owes a tremendous debt to the Middle East, North Africa, and absolutely the Americas. Spanish food is almost entirely North African, with many American ingredients. Portuguese is North African and Indian. Japanese food is basically Chinese food brought over in the 6th century. Vietnam owes a large debt to France, which in turn is just cribbing from the Italians. Etc etc etc. This is a silly argument.
Instead, I’ll tell you one of the best dinners I’ve had, after living in Europe for 20 years and traveling around the world:
Antebellum cornbread with sorgum butter
Crispy softshell crab with remoulade
Smoked wellfleet clams with tabasco mayo, ramps and pickled squash
Cornmeal crusted catfish with sweet potatoes, pecans, and lemon-mustard brown butter
Sticky pumpkin cake
Hard to get more American.
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LUTEFISK! HAKARL! CENTURY EGGS! EMPANADAS (in Argentina, at least)
PUDDING?
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Hot Grits!
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Yeah and I remember he voice in the commercials being sort of Mrs. Doubtfire-y. But then I’m largely thinking of the commercials as of the 80’s. A google image search showed a number of people in what appears to be black face (though it might indeed by “syrup face”), and a number of objects where she’s clearly depicted as white. And I’ve seen a few references to the early adds clearly referring to her as white. Plenty of people seem to roll her in with Jemima and related advertising characters though.
No the cultural bases for Cajun and Creole foods are varied, and do include a basis in French cooking. But also African, Native American and others. They developed here, among the varied peoples that were here. And especially with Creole among racially mixed people. They’re distinct from each other, and unrecognizable to their source cultures. So to New England cuisine, which is hardly bland. And not a direct carryover of English food. Its got as much influence from French food and cultures as it does English, and significant admixtures from more recent Portuguese, Italian, and Irish arrivals.
Playing semantics is pointless. The peoples here never had an catchall autonym for themselves as an entity separate from other groups in the world. But one is still needed. Native American is the US preferred catchall. First Nations in Canada. From what I understand many American Indians still prefer the word Indian for historical reasons. This is akin to saying you can’t call Germans Germans because that word didn’t exist until Modern English forced it upon that. Basically don’t call anyone anything because any given construction is fundamentally artificial and inauthentic.
And denying opressed cultures credit for their valid and provable influence on extent culture is one of the chief way this was accomplished and one of the lingering ways its still maintained.
Being a dick, then apologizing for being a dick in a dickish way, while not so stealthily bragging about “flambeeing” me just makes you a double dick. (or is it tripple dick? I lost count of the dicks.)
That’s fun. Succotash, hot water corn bread, and fry bread. Which is interesting. Cause those are the only 3 I know off the top of my head. Succotash (despite being from New England) is popularly presented as white southern food. As is hot water corn bread. And fry bread is essentially modern.
Well aware. But taking French food as a whole, particularly now there’s a hell of a lot more going on than Haute Cuisine. Foie Gras for example is often times traced to itinerant Jewish communities moving through Europe. And if you go back far enough a lot of things can be traced to a Roman root. Its interesting, but its a great example of how anywhere you look cultural subjects look like this. The great mother cuisine of Europe is just as much a mishmash as the US. Our mishmash is just more recent, and its history in places much uglier.
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An upper-class sobriquet for “rape”. At least the Canadians have the decency to call a seed a seed.
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