Do you have a problem with boiled dough?
If so - why don’t you take a flying fuck at a rolling bagel; why don’t you take a flying fuck at the mooooon!
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Mesoamericans are Native Americans dude. Ones a catchall for every culture from the western hemisphere that we tend to apply in the US just to those cultures from the US. Ones a specific catchall for those from regions in or around Mexico.
the 3 sisters is an agricultural method, not a dish. Beef jerky and chitterlings are pretty universal, so outside of specific preparation there isn’t anything particularly NA about them. And Livermush looks an awful lot like scrapple. Wiki doesn’t have anything on livermush’s history, but scrapple is supposed to have a German or Scotts Irish root.
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Hey man, you arbitrarily amalgamate non-whites your way and I’ll arbitrarily amalgamate them my way.
We can both be racist together.
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I’m gonna say its no more racist to try to refer to geographically related peoples in the Americas by a catchall than it is to do so for else where. About the same as saying “European” or “Asian” or “African”.
But I take your point. There’s not a particularly good catchall in this case. Native American isn’t particularly well accepted by the people themselves. Indian is still often used in historical and archaeological academics. But its got issues and a whole other, unrelated nation it refers to. First Nations is nice, but they only seem to use it in Canada. American is confused by the modern use and political implications of the world (USA! USA!). And Pre-Columbian refers to a specific period in history. In Spanish its Indígena, which is a fun word because if you transliterated it it would be “indijians” basically “indigenous people” rendered as a single word. Its all wacky and interesting.
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don’t forget prickly pear (hohokam), tulupai (apache), mesquite beans, and agave (too many tribes to mention). agave kinda tastes like ass without hot sauce 
but prickly pear is tasty.
in the northwest Eulachon was important (along with more sea creatures than i can shake a stick at). it is fascinating, and a lot of ideas seemed to pop up independently across the continents.
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Tomatoes and potatoes are the most well-travelled native Western Hemisphere foods.
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I’d say corn wins that one.
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Maize is pretty strongly identified with the New World. I don’t know of it becoming a staple elsewhere like tomatoes in Italy or potatoes in Northern Europe and Russia. A lot of people aren’t even aware that they’re imports.
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I guess it depends on the cliff you’re standing when you view the evolution of American cuisine.
For example, fried chicken is actually Scottish because, unlike the English who baked their chicken, the Scots deep fried theirs. They even deep fry their pizza. Their pizza!
Naturally, cooking is beneath the work of a plantation family so they assigned the cooking to their slaves who spiced it up with seasoning per West African tradition. It eventually became a staple among the slaves themselves cause raising chickens was easy and cheap. Chitlins were created out of the cuts of the pig that slave owners refused to eat.
Basically, African American food was made out of desperation. So you are right. It was created out of brutal, abject imperialism.
I think it’s dismissive to refer to those achievements as rip-offs or condemn them as appropriation because it was done out of survival, not from a position of power. Unless you’re referring to Americans taking credit for that food, but then that comes with the uncomfortable implication that black folks cannot be considered American. Soul food is considered American because the creators were Americans.
Also my beloved kimchi, the most Korean of Korean foods, would never have its trademark spice if it wasn’t for South America! Korea didn’t receive the chili pepper until the 16th century via trade with the outside world.
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No, I’m referring to the predominately white male corporate power structures that appropriated them, slapped trademarks on them, and mass produced horrible imitations of them. Companies like Quaker Oats. I wasn’t clear about that. Sorry.
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Which is my point. “American” food like Aunt Jemima pancake mix and syrups is mass-produced watered-down appropriations of the cuisines imported into the “melting pot” of imperialism from other cultures, sometimes by force, resettlement and genocide, and sometimes by willing immigration, almost never properly credited and with the cultures that invented them having little to no say or reward in their mass production. They’re the products of exploitation. Show me the decedents of Jim Crow era black cooks getting dividends from Quaker Oats and whose ancestors had control over the products marketed with their likeness and got wealthy from that exploitation, and I’ll eat my words.
Was I overgeneralizing in my broad dismissal of English and New England cuisine? Perhaps. I don’t care for it, but calling American chefs shit came from anger and that was totally uncalled for. A fact @japhroaig was able to call me out on without resorting to passive aggressive comments or name calling.
A, I don’t do subtle. It was cooking-related pun on internet flaming, which is nothing I ever would or anyone ever should brag about, hence my apology. If you choose rebuke it and/or read some ulterior motive into it, that’s up to you. B, I decline to be baited by people who resort to snide passive aggressive comments like…
I choose to believe you’re probably a very pleasant person in meatspace, and that maybe we got off on the wrong foot, but we are clearly not getting along. As I won’t be engaging in childish behavior such as calling people names, you have a nice day.
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Also peppers - they’re heavily associated with several European countries. Paprika is inseparable from Hungary.
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Oh right. We are in complete agreement there. I get the same sentiment when white gourmands talk about “discovering” Korean food and giving it their stamp of approval, and suddenly, Korean food is all vogue now because it’s been validated by the western palate.
Which is hilarious because growing up, the kids in school would turn their noses up and my lunch and literally make retching sounds over my food when they saw my mom packed me stir fried squid and dried seaweed. Now those same kids are probably buying overpriced jars of shitty “organic non-GMO kimchi” from Whole Foods cause Korean food is so “in” now.
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Slight tangent.
It must have been first grade, we had a Japanese student student in our class. This kid, his family, and the teacher arranged a kind of show and tell, and what I remember vividly was the Nori they brought in for us to try. Everyone tried it, and everyone was respectful.
I on the other hand was hooked. It was like a metaphorical first shot of heroin. (First ones always free :D)
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Hey, we cool :D. I enjoy lively, non insulting, and preferably pun-based debates. It’s how I rolllllllll
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Now I’m hung(a)ry.Thanks a lot.
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I’ll take that with a grain of salt.
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D’OugH!
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With this news, I can take great pride in saying that, as far as I can remember, I’ve never had Aunt Jemima syrup.
Of course, this story has nothing to do with the reason I don’t use Aunt Jemima syrup (it’s a decidedly inferior option to using real maple syrup), but still: GREAT pride!
