Park Ranger apologizes to GOP congressman for government shutdown

boing
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“Both sides are at fault” in the same way that, in a kidnapping situation, both the hostage taker and the hostage are “at fault.”

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Quite a large flagpin the congressman is sporting.

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How much are you getting paid to come here and spew shit like this?

http://www.alternet.org/story/149197/are_right-wing_libertarian_internet_trolls_getting_paid_to_dumb_down_online_conversations

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Except for the minor little fact that they can choose NOT to accept insurance, and demand cash payment. Which is happening more and more often. .

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OR, I could just be a new user. But, of course, you have to assume the worst. Nice attitude.

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Gee, Alternet. REALLY credible source there.

Let me suggest some alternate reading: the New York Times.

Specifically, this piece, that shows that we’re simply wired differently. Because, to you, it just isn’t possible that I have a sincerely-held belief: to you I’m wrong, stupid, and MUST be a dupe. To you, it’s impossible to have a different welthanschauung. . .

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I disagree, I think it is completely worth arguing with unreasonable opinions:

  1. These arguments are actually being made by people to further a cause. It’s worth presenting alternatives.

  2. People who make inflammatory comments do so because they know it creates an emotional reaction in others. But that is a reflection of themselves that they see in the world. They are vulnerable to their own tactics
    and can be made to stop.

  3. If they are actually just copy-pasting things and being paid to do so, I’d like them to earn their keep. Boingboing is a money pit for people presenting these views. Besides, if that’s how they are putting food on the table then I sympathize with them for having such an awful job. They may not have had the opportunities I had (upbringing, education, etc.). We all know that government programs to support the poor are woefully inadequate in America so it’s no wonder that people have to turn to this.

  4. No matter how unreasonable/stupid/awful someone is, it is unfair to assume that they are being paid to present that opinion or merely regurgitating talking points. A large number of people out there are being unreasonable/stupid/awful on the internet because they are actually that unreasonable/stupid/awful. Sure, this guy may be getting paid, but for the most part people are not. Personally I think claims of astroturfing must be largely exaggerated because there is an army of idiots out there willing to spout this nonsense for free.

So, to Salgak, I say, if you are actually being paid to do this I’m really sorry about your life circumstances that led you to this. I know that being hated for what you do isn’t nice. If you aren’t, then you have to understand the difference between being compelled to work and being offered a non-liveable wage. If you are better off financially not working, then you quit your job, you are not compelled to work.

If you are predicting that doctors will leave the profession en masse when this health care law takes effect then that is a different complaint and in no way comparable to slavery. Of course if that is actually what you are saying then you probably want to give us some reason to believe it is true, because it is not true. Previous to this law, self-obsessed borderline-psychopath doctors who wants to be paid insane amounts of money could leave their home country and travel to America. That will not be an option, so what are they leave medicine for? Astroturfing? Tough times.

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88

Again, I differ from the views of the Hive-Mind, so I MUST be a paid troll.

If you actually feel that way, then I am sad for you. Diversity of opinion does NOT mean just flavors of one side of the aisle.

And if you want to know how I got here, it got linked off of Slashdot, and I was interested enough to take a look. Only to find yet another left-of-center Anvil Chorus., . .

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I agree that there is a chance I’m not correct claiming this guy to be an Astroturfer, but you know - either he is one, or he has been made into an unwitting one (which would be even sadder - you further somebodies agenda and you’re not even paid for it). Even granted the option that he is not paid to do this, he seems completely unable to process information properly. Any claim of a false statement is answered with a hysterical claim of being marginalized, as though facts are opinions. This asking for accepting “diversity of opinion” is just a cover for demanding that time be wasted on his lunacy. I don’t see anybody in this thread really gaining anything except maybe smug satisfaction that you told somebody off.

I don’t even think that it’s a good idea that they “earn their keep”. Reminds me of Stallman saying in response to somebody: “Oh right, but I hit people over the head for a living! It’s my sole source of income!”. In the end, I think the sum of these nonsensical arguments create a climate in which people are trapped into believing idiotic falsehoods.

I absolutely agree that proper arguments should be reasonably discussed and that we can all benefit from that. But don’t be so naive to think that there aren’t people on this planet with vested interest in seeding nonsense like this in peoples heads so that they end up making a fool of themselves.

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The Hive MindTM requires evidence before it can be changed. You have yet to offer any.

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Because there was stupendous amounts of compromise to get GOP votes on the bill when it was in Congress. But then after all that compromising to make it more appealing to them, it still got no GOP votes.

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Um… well you like to respond to posts you didn’t read, that’s for sure. I was pointing out that it is wrong to assume that people are paid to troll boards (admittedly, I was also being very harsh towards the views you have expressed and I certainly suggested that the views you are expressing seem to stupid to me that it is believable that you are being paid to express them, but I very clearly responded directly to your absurd argument comparing ACA to slavery).

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Well, I will agree, after his last response to me in which he seemed to think I was accusing him of being an astro-turfer instead of arguing with you, that there doesn’t seem to be much to be gained by continuing the conversation. It isn’t like he is reading anything anyone is writing anyway.

Unfortunately, I do enjoy repeatedly replying to unreasonable people with reasonable arguments. Some people climb mountains, I don’t know.

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If you’d like to show that you’re not a paid troll, perhaps you could respond to this thought experiment in an honest thoughtful way:

What would you think if Obama said that he wanted a clean CR on his desk, approval of all of his judicial appointees that Republicans have been blocking (for years), statehood for DC, an assault weapons ban, and a bill requiring mandatory background checks for any gun purchases through gun shows before he’ll sign the CR. Would you think that if the Republicans didn’t work with him on these things and make some concessions that they were REFUSING to negotiate?

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There’s nothing to be gained by getting into a flame war with them. There’s two things to be gained by being calm about correcting their factual errors:

  1. It puts the correct facts out there for people who read the thread. That makes those readers less likely to believe this particular trolley later when he makes other incorrect statements in support of his cause.
  2. When readers who’ve seen evidence of the trolley’s distortions and misrepresentations of fact about the issue in this thread see similar statements elsewhere, they’re more likely to remember how wrong those misrepresentations turned out to be before and be skeptical of them this time.

Both reduce the effectiveness of distortion and misrepresentation, which is all to the good.

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I’d tell him to pound sand, and HERE IS WHY:

  1. The Seat of the Federal Government may NOT be a State, in accordance with the Constitution.

  2. An “Assault Weapons Ban” is a chimera: actual assault weapons have been effectively banned since the National Firearms Act of 1936. What currently are being CALLED “assault weapons” are being done so on purely cosmetic features.

  3. Mandatory background checks are ALREADY required at gun shows if the seller is a Gun Dealer with a Federal Firearms License. The so-called “gun-show loophole” is about purely private transactions between individuals, who have no access to the FBI “NICS” system. And won’t be granted access, because the system handles Personally Identifiable Information, only specific and inspected client systems may be granted access to the NICS system. I’ve got SOME inside info here: I used to work IT at the FBI Data Center where the database and system reside.

  4. AND. . . .A Continuing Resolution merely funds specified programs at the current level. . .

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I think that pretty much establishes you either as a paid shill or someone so indoctrinated as to be the mental equivalent. Completely evading an answer to the question. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’m very sorry for your career choice.

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A agree wholeheartedly. In an environment like boingboing, this works extremely well. I learn a hell of a lot of nuanced and interesting stuff from responses to trolls here. My knowledge of details of climate change research, healthcare, etc…are significantly higher. I suppose one could argue I could get this knowledge from other sources, but for whatever reason, these epic troll-against-the world sagas end up exposing me to a lot of great supporting evidence for ideas I agreed with but didn’t entirely understand.

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Classic case of nerd sniping :wink: I do like it as well, at times, but it all has to produce at least some benefit somewhere.

You assume that people who read a horrible misinformation being corrected actually learn from that if they previously held views similar to the misinformation. The way I have seen it, time and time again, is that the exact opposite happens. If you give idiotic claims the decency of a discussion, people end up even more riled up and hyperpartisan. And some people reading that wash get turned off from contributing because they don’t want to be caught in the crossfire.

That’s a fair point, but I would argue that you could learn just as much if that discussion was hellbanned yet still accessible. I agree that the discussion shouldn’t be blocked or censored right away, just that it needs a separate venue so that it doesn’t disrupt the actual discussion. (And yes, I realize the irony that I’m somewhat derailing the discussion myself here, sorry :wink: )

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What past efforts have you championed to free the droves of foreign-born Health-Worker-Slaves over here in ‘not-America’?
I imagine that, even if you haven’t seen fit to assist your brothers and sisters over seas and abroad (probably hoping the local population of free market economists would champion them instead), you would have no-doubt been, previously, deeply troubled by the out and out slavery being paraded in the faces of the Free World.
So I imagine and await, in reply, a trove of non-bad faith indications that you haven’t just constructed an ad-hoc philosophy to support your current paradigm.

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