Things coming fast now. Klobuchar is out. As much as I like Warren, she’s still in, though doesn’t have a chance, IMO. She should drop out before things get really ugly, which they are about to once Joe and Bernie are the only viable candidates remaining.
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Remember in our fantasy scenario it’s gonna be Bloomberg or Trump. Or taking it further Bloomberg and a Democratic congress, or more Trump and Mitch Fucking McConnell.
Where does the better chance live?
You can foot stamp about how shitty Bloomberg is all you want. But or Trump. Very much bar room conversation at this point. But if your answer to “Bloomberg or Trump?” is “Not Bloomberg”, well you’re answer is basically “Trump”.
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I stand by that. And I’d rather have Trump and a Dem Congress than Bloomberg and a GOP Congress. Because I’m fairly certain, in that case, Bloomberg would turn coat. Again.
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As was I, it turns out! Don’t know why I typed Mulaney instead.
Advice people will follow four years too late.
Because you’re presuming it will be better rather than establishing it. If the concern is that Bloomberg will be better at eroding civil liberties than Trump because he will have the support of both parties and more skill at playing the game, then the argument about the courts comes down to weighing one fundamental right against another. We can pretend people don’t stay home when they find both candidates terrible, but it doesn’t make it true.
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Which is why I want him gone ASAP. Even after I think of all the problems I have with Biden, at least he’s a Democrat. Bloomberg is just a Republican dressed in blue, hoping we don’t notice.
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I haven’t read through the entire thread(s) but I think that everyone needs to ignore the sexual identity of candidates and instead focus on policy statements.
As such, its clear that Pete is not so much a progressive as the nation might want…
We (Us:Americans) are a set of crazy voting blocks that must comprehend multiple modalities:
- we need to address the inequality divide
- We will retain a (likely unrealistic) vision of American exceptionalism
- 30-40% of Americans will crave Authoritarian/Nationalistic whatever-ism
We need a candidate that will inspire the vanquished “American dream” that once was - in a context of our current future and our current challengers. Bernie seems quixotic. Joe seems entitled. Liz seems destined.
yeah, yeah, yeah, but face it – he never won Iowa.
If you do read the thread I think you’ll see the general thrust is that we’re very happy to mark the historic running of the first openly gay candidate as a moment in history now that we’re quite sure the person who was the first openly gay candidate is not winning.
But honestly I disagree that people should focus on policy statements and not on who the candidate is as a person. If we were voting those policies into law we ought to pay a lot of attention to them. But whether it’s pressure from stakeholders, the reality of what they can pass through congress, or just the fact that they were outright lying, there are tons of reasons policies don’t materialize. At least as important as what they say they are going to do is an evaluation of their character and whether you think they’ll act in your interests when unexpected things happen.
(Not to be misread as me saying that “is gay” is a positive character trait, even if I kind of think it is)
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I agree, and I think that the candidacy of mayor Pete illustrates an important point- The limits of representation as a political “goal”.
I think the root of the matter is that representation is an indicator of progress,but some people treat it as if it is a driver of progress. And Pete, with his technocratic centralism and decidedly non-progressive track record in South Bend, shows exactly why there’s no guarantee that electing someone from an under-represented group will bring progress. There are loads of other examples as well- and this side of the Atlantic has suffered through a couple of notable ones.
It’s something that’s kind of obvious, when you think about it. The idea that improvements for a marginalised group will only be driven by electing members of that group presupposes a particularly nasty, tribal, and ultimately right-wing view of humanity, where people and politicians are only ever self interested and will only advance a cause if they personally benefit from it. Whereas in fact, all social progress has been made by people of all backgrounds coming together to challenge authority and orthodoxy, Partly because unity is strength, and partly because you need insiders in the power structure to enact the formal changes. Also, the flip side of this particular coin is that one consequence of all people being equal is that people of all backgrounds can be disappointing, bland failures.
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Of course we all know that anything that might be true of a group isn’t true of individuals in that group. People who run for president are not just individuals, they are strange individuals. “Candidate for president” is always going to be the most select and defining group you are a member of.
Representation does matter, and it’s a good thing. We’ve had people in these forums talk about what it meant to see Buttigieg run. I’ve heard from tons of black people what it meant to see Obama run (and win). But I think Buttigieg’s run made it clear that the number of people who will vote for a gay man because they are gay is vanishingly small. Nobody really thinks voting for someone just to achieve representation makes sense.
Indeed! Although Buttigieg is certainly not a failure and may still be America’s first openly gay president or vice president one day, or America’s first openly gay man to be in the Senate (Harris Wofford, I’m seeing now, was a openly gay after being a senator, but was married to a woman while in the senate).
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Unless Pete changes up his platform and makes a more serious effort to atone for his (perceived? actual?) lack of concern for black people during his time as mayor of South Bend, I don’t really see him getting very far in another national race. His biggest constituency this time around seemed to be “white people who like Biden but think he’s too old”. The farther into the future we get, the fewer incoming voters I see buying into that, based on the age-based exit poll split between Biden and Bernie.
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I was thinking Buttigieg would be trying to move onto Senator or Governor before making another run and thus having some other record to run on. But I guess that would necessitate a turn around in Indiana (not that I’m expert enough on American politics to know how likely that is).
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