Petition: remove child-specific antipersonnel device from Welsh library

[ChickieD]

Hi Mr. Mosquito. I work in high tech. I have another option for you besides legislation.

You could require it to be sold with a monitoring and service package, similar to the way home monitoring devices are sold. You could probably license your product to ADT or a similar type of security monitoring company. That way, you can qualify your customers and ensure that the product is being used properly and that devices are always in service. A lot of high tech products are sold this way, particularly ones aimed at businesses.

Generally the way these service packages are structured, there is a basic level, which is for every purchase - say $100/year.

Then there will be a Silver and Gold level for, say, $200 and $300 where there are more services provided - for example, if you purchase the Gold level of service you will automatically be upgraded to the latest, greatest system each time its upgraded.

I understand you are a small business person, but for a lot of companies, these service packages are how they make their money. The device itself is a loss leader.

I also think that the concerns that have been raised here should be addressed through some testing. For example, I have a four year old nonverbal autistic niece; I wonder how she might be affected by a system like this. Even simpler than the blinking light to warn off people who might be affected would be a yard sign, similar to what the security device people use, that states the hours the system is in use, lists sensitive people who should avoid the area, and includes a 24 hour service number.

[dragonfrog]

Oh, I really hate that - using good music as a weapon. Even if you like classical music (I happen to), those systems are repellent. The speakers are always terrible, the volume inappropriate for the noise levels of the place, etc. - everything about it selected to make the music sound as bad as possible.

[KarlS]

It is interesting that the website addresses people having problems with “teenagers loitering near your property”. I thought at least the pretense was that it was meant to be used against people on your property against your wishes. Harassing people on public (or someone else’s) ground is indefensible.

[Gwbromhall]

Mr Mosquito, or Mr Howard Stapleton invented this device, after his first 5 companies failed, He has created a sonic weapon that not only demonises young people but also is highly dangerous to people with autism, anxiety epilepsy and hypersensitivity to sound. My name is Gareth Bromhall and I started a campaign to get one device removed from one building in one town to make my town a safer and more inclusive to all. Mr Stapleton has taken it upon himself, and has involved his family friends to Harass me personally, not the large campaign I have behind me, but myself as it’s leader. Any un supportive comments were deleted from the campaign support group, no matter the source. That is why his comments were deleted. Mr Stapleton then proceeded to get me banned from Facebook for three days… Talk about censorship. He has questioned my mental health on multiple occasions and he has spent the past few weeks trying to undermine and to personally been harassing me during that time. Including sending people down to disrupt a very well supported local protest. His representatives took pictures, filmed and verbally abused myself and my father, the only two faces Mr Stapleton knows. He has been banned from every other form of communication with me because if his harassment, and he has used this opportunity to grandstand and show off. Truth is… I’m an unemployed socialist activist who has been personally affected by this device, and he is a rich man (despite his five failed companies) with far more power and influence than me. I’m trying to get one device taken off of one building in my town, and Mr Howard Stapleton is attacking me in anyway he can… I think that’s a little unfair. I have testimonies from people all over the town of the adverse effects his sonic weapon has on it’s most vulnerable people. I will not stop until this weapon is removed, and I will not comment further, but I felt I needed to say something to counter Mr Stapleton’s vile lies, mistruths and anti youth, demonising comments. This is a local issue, that is being dealt with locally. If you agree that this sonic weapon is as deplorable as I do sign our petition, if not… Fair enough, but please… Don’t sink to his level. Yours, in the hope that this will at least be my say in the matter. Gareth Bromhall, head of PAMSOW, Pembrokeshire Against Mosquito SOnic Weapon.

[chgoliz]

Didn’t pass any O-levels, did you?

[MarjaE]

If you can wear them.

I know I can’t wear standard earplugs. I don’t know if my inability to wear standard earplugs, my pain response to high-pitched noises such as these, and my utterly incapacitating pain response to back-up beepers/pain amplifiers, are related.

And if they provide enough protection.

I think exposure to other high-pitched sounds, such as from a constant 14kHz alarm, may have worsened my hyperacusis.

[dacree]

It’s about time libraries began chasing off skateboarding youth instead of embracing them. Libraries don’t need young people hanging about and there is no need to work with the community to find a mutually beneficial solution.

[MrMosquito]

You would not say this if your were a friend of an old lady who couldn’t leave her own flat because of a gang of very nasty yobs who every time she tried to leave her flat demanded money from here.

I gave her a unit and her friends paid for it to be installed, she now leaves her flat without fear to have tea with her neighbours.

When the police where called guess what they ran away before they could be dealt with only to return when the police left.

This is just one story of many.

[CaptainPedge]

Do you get migraines?

[davide405]

@MrMosquito

… so don’t worry Mr B you can use the library without fear of another Panic Attack.

Dismissive and patronizing.

@MrMosquito

it is a shame that a few chavs reck it for the rest, you know the type those who think an ASBO is cool.
{emphasis added}

Chav
You seem to have a specific “type” in mind, but your device is indiscriminate.
ASBO

@MrMosquito

It is a very sad sign of our times, no respect from the parents and even less from their kids.

@MrMosquito

As long as Mum and Dad can drink themselves daft without the kids hanging around the house what do they care what their kids get up to.

Are you an editor for the Daily Mail?

@MrMosquito

High frequency sound does not pass through solid objects

False

High frequency sound has different diffraction properties from lower frequency sounds.

@MrMosquito

I suspect that to my daughter the sound is not high frequency so she does not find it annoying.

Suspect does not equal true.

@MrMosquito

People have asked about dogs and this has been fully tested by the guide dogs for the blind

Citation please.

@MrMosquito

Those who say I am full of ’shit’ are plain wrong I only built the thing so my daughter (then 14) could visit the local shop in the evening without being molested.

So your daughter, who is in the targeted age range, could visit the place undisturbed while the device was in operation, but the “shit faced chavs” couldn’t endure it?

I need a little elaboration to understand this inconsistency.

@MrMosquito

Yes this could be called scaremongering but you would not say this if it was a friend or relative of yours who was on the receiving side!

It’s exactly scaremongering. To wit: Think of the children!

@MrMosquito

I was even told by a large group of kids whilst filming some TV that they would be pleased to see a device installed at their local shop as they were to afraid to visit the shop after dark,

So again, as the example of your (then 14 year old) daughter above: How is it that the good kids aren’t bothered by the device in operation, but the chavs are?

@MrMosquito

the long term answer is a step back in time to good old fashioned discipline but this would give the Human rights brigade a heart-attack.

Please define “good old-fashioned discipline.” Would this involve a specified number of strokes with a cane delivered to bare buttocks?

@MrMosquito

we have received very few genuine complaints other than those who disagree which it in principle.

It’s good to know, at the least, that you regard disagreeing with the concept in principle as a genuine complaint; it is exactly the principle of the thing that is problematic.

Based on the behavior of a small subset of the youth population, you responded by inventing a device which causes area denial to an entire demographic. And then, with fear as your primary marketing tool, you’re selling these things at £500 each.

[CaptainPedge]

Do you have any intention in actually engaging with the comments you are receiving, or are you just here to spread your propaganda?

I can state, as a fact, that there ARE health issues liked with you device, I suffer from them. The device is antisocial, dangerous, and should be banned.

[MarjaE]

You are going to inflict serious auditory problems and severe lifeling pain.

I don’t know how many people will suffer these effects from your device, but I am suffering such effects from other devices, even at lower frequencies. I am often on the edge of suicide from the pain from the auditory bombardment everywhere. I am unable to work due to the pain. I am unable to run errands without hearing protection, and even that isn’t always enough. I am sometimes unable to walk or to do anything but curl up and scream due to the pain from back-up beepers/pain-amplifiers.

[crenquis]

@MrMosquito

Those who say I am full of ’shit’ are plain wrong I only built the thing so my daughter (then 14) could visit the local shop in the evening without being molested.

So, it doesn’t work on teens? Or was your daughter immune?

@MrMosquito

We quote that the Mosquito can run at 108 dB but this is like saying that your ghetto blaster (showing my age) pumps out 100 watts peak to peak but this is actually 35 using the correct scientific measurement RMS (100/2*0.7=35). Kids listen to their MP3s at way higher volumes.

Seems that you are comparing apples and oranges… Comparing the measured dB output to the peak vs RMS rating of a stereo amp.
I see that it typically operates at ~85 dB(A) at a couple meters distance – that is loud, but not dangerously so (about the limit where one should wear protection if exposed to it for a long time).
However, dB(A) weighted measurements don’t really seem correct for this device, since the A weighting discounts the higher frequencies.
US OSHA standard ( 29 CFR 1910.95):

At 20 kilo-Hertz (kHz), an A-weighted sound pressure level is 10 decibels (dB) below an unweighted sound pressure level.

10 dB is a doubling in perceived loudness.

Using Mr Mosquito’s BoomBox example, doubling the RMS power (Watts) of the amp typically only raises the perceived sound by ~3 dB – one would have to raise the power to 350 Watt rms.

[crenquis]

@davide405

we have received very few genuine complaints other than those who disagree which it in principle.

It’s good to know, at the least, that you regard disagreeing with the concept in principle as a genuine complaint

I do recall a Slashdot query years ago…
Somebody installed one of these at the front of their home and it was really bothering people in the neighborhood – they complained to the police, but the officers who came out couldn’t hear it, so no luck.

[ChickieD]

There is an organization that sets standards for noise safety. If the device were to be certified to that standard, then it would be reasonable to say it is safe. If it does not meet any standard, then people are left only with the manufacturer’s say so that it safe.

http://webstore.ansi.org/safety_standards/noise_safety/default.aspx

This is usually how products are engineered - there is an organization that sets standards and the device has to meet them.

[miasm]

ROFL
Perfect iambic pentameter too!

[MarjaE]

@ChickieD

If the device were to be certified to that standard, then it would be reasonable to say it is safe.

Let me guess, back-up beepers/pain amplifiers are certified to that standard, even though they are incapacitatingly painful for some of us, at ranges of half a mile, through ear protectors and the only ear plugs I can wear.

Nothing like when safety devices inflict so much pain that you collapse when they go off while you try to cross the street.

But then I didn’t have that issue until I had been exposed to three weeks of constant high-pitched noise. … which gets us back to these things and how many other people will have this issue.

[Gwbromhall]

Mr Howard Stapleton will never engage in any of the comments I or so many have you have raised because… His arguments are empty, and his venom spitting for young people or “shit faced chavs” probably cones from the fact that he is privately educated, that explains a lot doesn’t it. He has no real response to complaints and questions, that he can answer without further exposing himself for the evil man he is. An old lady who can’t leave her house? Perhaps that’s because of the culture of fear and the generational divide created by cretins like this fellow and the daily mail. How about a 5 year old with epilepsy having fits anywhere near the library or local super market, a non verbal 4 year old with autism who could only put his hands over his ears to stop the pain, the 16 year old girl who has had fits because of the device or my experience if a terrifying panic attack, all in my small costal town? Eh? The device that Mr Stapleton peddles causes harm to everyone who it effects, high frequency noise, 108db… Aimed at young people and now in Milford Haven, we have found audible to everyone. It causes headaches, nausea and pain, in any normal person… Never mind the list of vulnerable people I have mentioned before. It has not been properly tested on children, babies, animals or it seems anyone, most of the “scientific” or “medical” reports on his website were produced in house or actually show just how damaging these sonic weapons. I think the attune of the man that you can all see, and his dogged attempts to harass and attack me show just the kind of man he is.

(Ps… O levels haven’t been around for at least 20 years, and if my spelling or punctuation is off… That’ll by my medication! )

[Gwbromhall]

Any questions? I am happy to answer, I’ll tell you the facts that we have but I will not engage with Mr Stapleton or anyone from his company… As I currently have a current harassment case open, I hope you all understand.

New users can only post three replies a day?? Urgh

In response to ChickieD:
As the whole idea of the device is to deter people, it violates uk health and safety policy. Our health and safety advisor (30+ year health and safety rep) tells us. And the Milford Haven Port Authority who we are campaigning against, have done no health and safety checks or equality checks before putting the sonic weapon in place. They are a for profit company so this is not about books or a security guard… It’s about a multi million pound company’s profits, and the need for a security guard and not a device that is dangerous to people who are in public areas using the local superstore, not just “shit faced chavs”. Not really much to ask in our opinion.

[ChickieD]

I have never worked with a device that was manufactured for noise safety, so I have no idea how those standards work, but generally in engineering devices are manufactured to appropriate safety standards. At the very least, it would be a starting point for setting some limits, as it appears now that it was constructed without any compliance to standards.