How about: which of these things do Muslims believe in?
- The Virgin Birth
- The Ascension
- The Second Coming of Christ
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I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.
– William Howard Taft
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Taft was a Muslim?
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Those are not on the original subject you brought up.
Please aim for your own original goalposts, thanks.
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I think plenty of US politicians are sekret atheists. As Richard Dawkins (I KNOW x 3, but he is right sometimes) has pointed out, its extremely difficult to get elected in the US if you admit that you don’t believe in god.
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That’s a direct answer to a direct question that you asked. Looks like you were proven wrong and are now trying to back out of your statement.
I’m sure many would outright deny it even if told that. I’ve known some who, with all seriousness, insist that the Muslims are actually worshiping a moon god that they’re trying to pass off as the same god as Christians to fool people.
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Resurrection from the dead is surprisingly common. Nowadays it is usually called a 'refractory period".
And yes, Jesus is life. The same exact way that Obama is hope. Because religion, rather than being based upon science, is based upon…
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To some, religion is metaphor. To others, it is literal. If Barack Obama has made any statements indicating that his repeated characterization of himself as a devout Christian is metaphorical, I’d be interested in seeing them. Otherwise, like any other speaker, speaking any other words, his literal words should be taken literally.
More broadly, there seems to be some consternation in this thread regarding the revelation of the fact that Barack Obama has characterized himself as a devout Christian, and spoken of key events in the Christian mythos as if they were factual. IMO, such a characterization serves the same purpose as those characterizing him as a Muslim. I can’t prove that he’s not “secretly” a Muslim any more than I can prove that he’s not BS’ing us about his devout Christianity. My personal belief is that both sides are leveraging these positions for political gain.
People’s literal words should be considered, of course. But living in post-modernism, it is de rigeur to also bear in mind that a person may not understand what they speak of, understand while failing to articulate it correctly, or otherwise speak with intention to deceive. Along with many other possible rhetorical scenarios.
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No offense, intended. As I work in the very strange, I am extremely aware of how the predominant world view of Americans and most other nations is literally atheist. I even view this as the case with Muslim nations, including the very religious ISIS sorts. Fact is their political system, or religious system, works very well for them in this world, and most certainly as if there is no God.
That they rely a lot on stories about the afterlife to spur their foolish into suicide attacks is relatively meaningless. They are clearly living for this world and are taking this world as it is presented to them. I am also quite sure they have zero supernatural contact. You don’t burn a prisoner alive if you believe there is a God or powerful supernatural entities over watching the world. You definitely do not engage in mass raping and pillaging.
Activities like Ramadan also work very well for them, though on the surface, it implies some sort of real “belief”, frankly, it deeply increases their esteem in the community. These religious acts are not symptomatic of someone who has real experience with the supernatural, far less evidence that there is any manner of evidence they have of benign supernatural overseers. It is all performed for social effect.
On topic: who are these Republicans, who said “deep down Obama is a Muslim”? They probably are card carrying “Christian”, and likely of some manner of the fundamentalist (or “funny mentalist”) sort. That they have no problem slandering the President says one thing, that they have not taken the time to even begin to try and understand Islam, that says something else. None of it says, as usual, that they have any kind of real experience with the supernatural.
Obviously, they do not, and also obviously, they are not even capable of reasoning. As I said in my response to this, they are herd creatures who run by instinct, some cunning, but no real reasoning faculties. Hypothetically, if they had any real knowledge, would they be going around on autopilot without ever deeply thinking out matters and making deep efforts to be right? Of course not.
It is all social.
Can’t say they are wasting their time going to church every Sunday, because they do it for social reasons. They get considerable social esteem by their many efforts, and what are their other choices? It gives them much more of a platform to feel good about themselves by believing themselves to be better then others. Not much happiness, and those that actually try and affect fake joy tend to be the most miserable of them all.
But they have a sort of social drug which does give something… that while not real happiness, is satisfying enough for them, and usually the best they have ever had.
But, yeah, poll wise, the actual atheist head count in these countries, including the US is really very low. You mention “relatively speaking”, yes, atheists are highly concentrated in, for instance, the sciences. Which, I should here add: atheists are actually what I generally find to be the most honest of the bunch. They are also a minority, so I take that in regards with my attitude to them. In fact, I expect you to be an atheist, and probably might agree with much of what I am saying here. You do not have evidence and are honest about it.
Only times I really get peeved on atheists is when they resort to strawman arguments and such, or assume there really is nobody out there, no way, guaranteed. Not much off my shoulders though, and I consider their honesty in comparison to these others. I get my paycheck, after all – literally. Anyway, in media, when is it anyone believes without evidence? Secret societies… Lost Girl, Grimm, Supernatural, Constantine, Sleepy Hollow, MiB (one of the favorites)… look, obviously people aren’t going to believe unless you like take your face off and show them evidence. And then what happens, really? It is traumatic. Those shows don’t ever get that right. Way worse then soldiers seeing bad stuff in war. (Obviously, most believers simply have evidence internally, shown typically by their outrageous joy and happy countenance. Hard for outsiders to see, not so hard for us. And yeah, that would include Obama. )
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Looks that way to you, because that;s easier than stepping back and looking at what you said in the first place.
Don’t ever ask another to consider their mistake, if you can’t.
So, two examples please of, in YOUR words
Statements made by Obama like the one you misquoted in your opening comment. Assertive statements of what he believes. “I am a ______”
Pony up two examples of Obama putting HIS faith out there the way you called him out for, cowboy. And not “Obama talking about Jesus” which is what you provided, and claim is the former.
They aren’t.
And it ‘looks like’ you’re really skilled at narrative. Please improve at facts.
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I feel like we’re stepping into ridiculous territory here. Just search any search engine for “Obama Christianity quotes”, and you’ll find numerous examples of Obama characterizing himself as a devout Christian, and making statements about key Christian mythohistorical events, while characterizing them as factual. I’ve stopped short of posting one of those “let me Google that for you” screenshot video links.
I’ve already given you two direct quotes from speeches he gave, from links originating from Whitehouse.gov, per your request for two instances. I don’t know how much more proof you want. I don’t have Barack Obama sitting here in my living room to do a quick Skype chat with you.
It’s possible there is a cognitive dissonance at play here, or some other cognitive bias. Barack Obama has repeatedly characterized himself as a devout Christian, both personally and with those exact words, and by referencing key Christian mythohistorical events as fact.
But you’re claiming that he isn’t a devout Christian, despite many examples over the years of his profession to being a devout Christian, even before he held any political office. How many decades does someone have to go to church every Sunday and use religious references and quotes in their everyday speech before you’re willing to believe them when they say they’re Christian? Does Jesus have to come to you in a vision to confirm the claim?
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I’m claiming that my belief is that he’s not a devout Christian. My belief is also that he’s not secretly a Muslim. I can’t prove either one.
You state, in part: “How many decades does someone have to go to church every Sunday”. Are you implying that Obama has been attending church every Sunday for decades?
And I will add that you’re the only person in this thread arguing that Obama never characterized himself as a devout Christian. I don’t know what more you want than a direct quote from him of: “I am a devout Christian”. This is like arguing with a birther who denies the existence of Obama’s birth certificate.
Exactly. There are two main kinds of racism. Overt and then racism as the result of interior bias. The bias is not usually conscious. So you hit the nail on the head. We can’t say what the respondents may be thinking or feeling. But we can infer their bias, based on the larger context playing out in the USA.
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That was me swearing when he took office! Nixon that is.
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Even if I agreed with most of what Republicans prefer, how could I possibly ally myself with a group that is so universally stupid?
(Except on guns. I still think people should have guns.)
