Granted, it wasn’t in America, but the guy was American.
So even more off-topic than I have been up to this point, but whatever.
Even if he was Muslim…who cares? Oh yeah, the fools who think Muslim = terrorist do. Jeepers.
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if you don’t have facts to back it up, that’s called handwaving.
I asked nicely for an example of who ever did that thing. You came up with zero and tried to say facts are irrelevant. Noted.
Americans have been hard to believe in the last couple decades. I don;t blame ya.
No need to speak with contempt, either, but there you go again.
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so, you’re too cool to do anything but lob grenades? and enjoy the reactions you get
Very brave. Very much a person whose opinion should matter.
Am I? You’re putting words in my mouth and playing like YOU are victim. Turnabout is never fair play to your type. And you game the referee’s too.
You’re saying he’s not devout per your standard, therefore he is an agnostic liar per mine?
Could you respond to content, and not the twisted panties you have for me?
or is this a tone argument now?
would you respect my belief that you’re not here in good faith? It’s not fact, I’m sharing my belief with you about you. It’s not unkind. I jsut happen to believe you enjoy making provovative statements and not backing them up.
I see several times in the thread that you’ve dodged questions asked improperly by your standards. etc etc etc.
You have the right to speak. How could I stop yiu if I even wanted to? You do not have the right to attack and then play attacked.
If you’re not going to respond to the content of a message, why bother responding? Isn’t it dramatic though! To be so attacked (even though you’;re just being asked tough questions and fire you are bringing but fail to own, is being returned).
and reckless annoyance at the third and fourth time it’s repeated.
Like we’re deaf AND stupid.
It’s not just that atheists are hated, though, but also that atheists seem to represent everything about modernity which Americans dislike or fear.
I think religious believers are often ‘vaccinated’ against unbelief, with repeated weekly (or often much more frequent) booster shots. If the secret to a better life is more faith and overcoming doubt, atheists represent a direct challenge to that model. Mistrust of atheists is just an outward expression of a struggle people have within themselves, against a ‘virus’ that they must fight against at all costs. Even if a certain proportion of conservative Christians are homosexual and refuse to admit it, most do not have an existential conflict between their own sexuality and their interpretation of their faith’s stance on homosexuality. Where they do, it can get a lot uglier than with those who are able to ignore homosexuality altogether. The other groups can also be accommodated within the worldview as they don’t directly challenge the idea that faith is vital to life.
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I respect your beliefs AcerPlatanoides. I just don’t believe in them.
Nor do I think you should be attempting to bully the various people in this thread who have different beliefs than you. I don’t think it’s having the effect you intend.
I’ve given you numerous responses as to Obama’s repeated claim that he is a “devout Christian”. Google it. It’s very, very, very easy to find.
Could you give a definition of a True Devout Christian? And not just some general hand-waving: there seems to be a very specific set of thoughts and behaviors required to pass your test.
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We’re getting off topic here but I just thought I’d chime in that only gnostic religions rely on “real experience with the supernatural.” Just because one hasn’t had such does not make one an atheist or agnostic.
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I’ve pretty much given up on your ever actually reading any of my posts, but in case you decide to start:
The fact that being Muslim is considered a bad thing is pretty messed up, no? Religious belief (or lack thereof) shouldn’t matter when it comes to getting elected, but it does. In the US, not being Christian still poses a problem for a politician’s career.
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I am neither Republican, nor Democrat. Doesn’t go so well at parties, except if I say neither, which I am. However, I have studied Islam, and keep abreast of the news in the regions where there are US conflicts with Muslim populations overseas. If someone were to share with me that they secretly believe ‘deep down’ that Obama is a Muslim, they would be telling me that they are both stupid and ignorant.
Put another way: that they have no evidence for their judgments, yet they make their judgments anyway.
It would also tell me they have no respect for making judgments on individuals without being concerned with any basis for fact. And, because they probably consider Islam in the most derogatory sense, and consider that the wars being fought are against Islam… this, for them, means they hold an extremely low opinion of Obama. Again, without any basis of facts.
This, then, puts them on the level of crawling dogs in the night. They are not higher then the people of the inquisition or the witch trials. This does speak volumes about just how little evidence they operate on, it well implies that they do not have any sort of evidence for anything of importance.
I suppose that is a good enough life for them, to go through their days without ever asking serious questions or questioning their allegiances and what sort of crap their put into their… hearts. They must derive some sort of pleasure from living this way.
I do not know why they do it. Probably something like they simply do not really want to know the answers and expect that … if they are asleep or crawling about in the dark, that they will be okay, anyway. I mean, they do not even go, “Wait a minute here, I am not happy, am I? How can I fix this problem?”
Definitely not the curious sort that asks a lot of questions, who go, “Okay, what is the truth about what is going on in the Middle East”. Or, “what is right and what is wrong about American popular viewpoints?” Or, “what if all my friends are wrong and if what I believe to be true, in fact, is not?”
Not all things may be answered in books or magazine articles, but you really have to not want the truth to be so ignorant as to believe Obama is a Muslim.
But then, my opinion doesn’t matter to that sort. I am not part of their appeasing herd that will praise them for their “yes sirs” and “yes maams” by parroting what they all buy into. It has nothing to do with proof, and very much to do with: well, how either of my two doggies here might like a tummy rub or be told they are good little boys.
Human praise. Makes their little bodies course all sorts of pleasing feeling chemicals through them.
Nobody eats doggies, so maybe these fellows that never ask any questions and are willing to tell any lies feel no one will ever eat them.
No such definition exists. Are you asking for examples of statements made by Obama that would legitimately call into his question his claim of being a “devout Christian”? Sure, no problem. He famously criticized people for “clinging” to religion, then later claimed that he was a “devout Christian”.
You are making this a more complicated problem than it needs to be. Obama (or anyone else) making two distinct kinds of nebulous statements does not necessarily present any real contradiction. Especially with regards to religion, where there is little agreement of what it actually is in the first place.
I think that religion is very much, in simplified terms, a state of mind. And states of mind can be expected to differ over time. This is how you can find many people who are “devout Christian” on Sunday, and yet not particularly Christian the rest of the week. This only becomes contradictory if you require religion to be an identity, which is not likely to withstand scrutiny any more than other professed identity constructs.
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APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
EVANGELII GAUDIUM
OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS
TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY, CONSECRATED PERSONS AND THE LAY FAITHFUL ON THE PROCLAMATION OF THE GOSPEL IN TODAY’S WORLD
Here I repeat for the entire Church what I have often said to the priests and laity of Buenos Aires: I prefer a Church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a Church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security.
If the Pope isn’t a devout enough Christian enough for you, who is?
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I have no idea what you mean. I never stated that the Pope “isn’t a devout enough Christian” for me.
No, that was my question, based on your statement about Obama:
The Pope publicly criticized people for clinging to the security of their religion instead of embracing the messiness of religion in the real world. When Obama did that, you said he wasn’t really a devout Christian. So, does your statement apply to the Pope as well, or is there something special about Obama that makes his long term religious practice more suspect to you?
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