I cared too but not enough to go into six figure debt and then work for $10/hr in my 40s. I made an economic and stress decision and went back into tech. I have good friends who are professors and their lives are often hell, working at three schools, no security, low pay, etc. (and that’s when they can find work).
1 Like
Thank you! This! We need more reports like this here on BB.
Right!
1 Like
Except the people in this case have no real political and social power vis-a-vis the state. Again, right or wrong, Click was not working as an agent of the state. That makes a huge difference. That’s the problem with viewing things through a universal lens. Not all people have the same political power in our world. I understand what you’re trying to say here, but the line between these two groups actually matters. Nuance matters.
I totally agree with you here. But it can serve to bring out the very power differential you’re highlighting in this comment here.
This is such BS.
Does it not matter? I don’t think @MrShiv is blaming anyone here, but is saying this is happening and it’s not right.
I don’t think he’s suggesting that, but rather that there is a tone of animus aimed at her which is probably a bit out of touch with what she did.
2 Likes
It certainly isn’t happening here and isn’t the sort of thing we tend to tolerate on this site. So, I found it flat out offensive to the folks in this thread.
No one here called for any of the things he implies we’re chortling over.
1 Like
I’m privileged in that I’ve had help. I don’t imagine that I’m better or worse than anyone else, but that, like anyone else, I deserve the chance to make a living at something that I love to do. The anti-intellectual tenor in this country is part and parcel of universities having to think in terms of money making instead of community serving.
1 Like
Maybe this is the moment to pause, and re-read your comments, which have been vitriolic.
No one was suggesting that you have been inciting violence, but you certainly have “ganged up” and condemned the woman to perpetual unemployment without judge and jury.
And another thing, when someone is talking from experience of the situation (e.g. MrShiv) on which you are making quick off the cuff comments, because he actually is in Missouri, than it is sometimes a virtue to take a moment and just listen…before you condemn
Part of the wonder of a comment thread is that some people know more about a subject / situation because it is their area of expertise and / or it is actually part of their experience.
I for one am far more interested to hear what is actually happening in Missouri, what people’s hopes fears are in these uncertain times, than some banging on about some righteous principle, which has never been fully implemented from day one. E.g. I very much doubt that at the time of the passing of the Bill of Rights, and with it the ominous 1st Amendment (so around 1791) everyone’s freedom of speech was equally protected.
Somehow, I don’t think that a black man insisting on his 1st Amendment Rights would have fared particularly well. Rather than experiencing the full protection of the law he would have been far more likely to experience its full force.
2 Likes
One of my oldest friends, from our undergrad days, who got me my first interview at Microsoft back in the 90s (and where we both worked) is doing a doctorate in Neurobiology at Case Western. She’s not going into debt at all, has a stipend, and works in a lab. She’s also living in a Zen center that she owns part of. She’s very helpful with her lifestyle but she’s in the sciences, where one can actually get funding. I was in Buddhist Studies…
I’m pretty sure her employment isn’t our decision. We’re allowed to have opinions on this web forum and discuss them without people pretending we’re somehow impacting her personally. We aren’t. She’ll sink or swim based on her university and colleagues.
1 Like
I’m glad to hear that for her! She’s (as a friend in my department likes to say) living the dream.
Unfortunately, the struggle over academia has come down to what fields make money. The humanities, in general, are not seen as being of import, because they don’t lead to a money making career. It ignores the role that history, art, music, literature, studies of religion, peoples, cultures, etc play in our lives. They matter, we all have some engagement with those things in some way or another.
2 Likes
Preaching to the choir here, reverend.
1 Like
Okay, fair enough.
I mean, I wrote an MA thesis about the soul in an Edwardian magical secret society…
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=1472152931&Fmt=2&clientId%20=79356&RQT=309&VName=PQD
Okay. I’m sorry.
Nothing to be sorry for! I’m a Liberal Arts true believer. If I could make a living, I’d be teaching people for a living probably. As it is, I work on web browser security.
There are options other than meeting privately, such as journalists not providing photos or last names. I saw a news story just this morning that did that. Something like that seems to allow both public (and visible) protest and a moderate amount of anonymity. But that’s about the choices and actions of the students and/or journalists. I was thinking about circumstances that led to Prof. Click’s unfortunate actions, her state of mind, her possible concerns, etc. Faculty members often can’t control less-than-optimal decisions by students. We’re often not even consulted, but find ourselves trying to do damage control, or intercede on the behalf of students who’ve already started down an inadvisable path. Anyway, my motive was to attempt to provide some perspective on this that seemed to be otherwise missing.
5 Likes
1 Like
I assume you mean “the” comments and not “my” comments. Because “my” comments were very middle of the road: “While I don’t think she handled it correctly, it appears to me it at least is coming from the “right side”.” I also pointed out the absurdity of “safe spaces” in general and especially in a public area, but acknowledge that was now a “thing”.
While others have been harsher in condemning her, including saying she should lose her job, partly because her actions are in conflict with what she is supposed to be teaching (sort of like a fundamentalist Christian teaching Evolution) - no one has hinted they would take joy in her actually being physically harmed.
FWIW - I am in Missouri as well, though not in that area. If that some how gives me more cred.
Mr. Shivs comments could have been in relation to negative comments he has seen elsewhere, as I am sure they exist. But it felt like it was directed to the discussion here, which (unless I missed something in the posts I skimmed) was completely unwarranted. Obviously I wasn’t the only one who felt that way.
In a bigger picture, this is what I find so frustrating with debate in general on the Internet and calling attention to important issues. It so easily gets poisoned by over the top claims and counter claims that the original, valid complaint just gets overshadowed by the fringe noise. And then when someone pokes in to try to figure out what is going on, they write the whole thing off as crazy people complaining.
You’re right. Women couldn’t vote back then either. We didn’t get EVERYTHING right in 1791. But at least many of the freedoms and rights this nation was founded on were correct. It just took some time to make sure those rights applied to everyone the same legally - and we are still working on getting them applied the same in practical application.
You are right, your comments were middle of the road.
I was responding to the general tone of the thread and in particular your shouting at MrShiv, who in the context of the thread seemed to me to make a very relevant point.
I also wasn’t the only one who felt so (although, not sure how that makes either of our points, more valid)
The general tone of comments, starting with the original posting felt very much vitriolic and “ganging up” on Dr Click (see the newest post on the theme). I note that there have been 3 posts on Dr Click’s misdemeanor and only one general round up of the context, when the MU President resigned. Very little on the actual issue i.e. the persistent racial harassment of students and their efforts to create change. I might have missed something. But it all reads very floppy sided.
The whole thing on Dr Click, just feels fringe noise, and it is frustrating to see the issue at the centre of it all, the fair, and equal treatment of Black students being drowned out (admittedly, unwittingly Dr Click contributed to this). The thing is, if she has committed a crime, she can be charged and persecuted for it, enough people have seen the video, and sufficient number of people with power have an interest to see her suffer.
The point is that issues seem to be conflated here. There is the principle of the 1st Amendment which is a noble and good thing, and a great American achievement and then there is the reality on the ground, which is far from that ideal, but of course much closer than it was in 1791. Someone here, I think zikzak, but I can’t now find any of his contributions any more (I very much hope they haven’t been removed), I think made this point.
And while some commenters seem to focus on the noble principle, I for one, am far more interested in the implementation…
2 Likes
I also pointed out the absurdity of “safe spaces” in general and especially in a public area, but acknowledge that was now a “thing”.
In general? So you think they’re sometimes okay? If not, why not?
The issue of Dr. Click and thus most of this thread strike me too, as I think @nojaboja said, as a frustrating diversion from the real issue (racism), and thus mostly just serves the Right.
1 Like
Here on Boing Boing’s BBS?
