Quotes on religion and the mythical Christian solar god Jesus's association with the Sun

You say you see parallels with 19th century translations of New Kingdom documents. I say I see parallels with Mesopotamian creation myths.

I believe extant copies of the Mesopotamian texts are older than the various New Kingdom papyri Budge quotes from1, therefore I win. QED.

1: There are at least 4 different texts being quoted from here. Two of them are definitely different versions of the Book of the Dead: the Papyrus of Ani and the Papyrus of Nu. The wrappings of Thutmose III is the source of a third, and likely makes up part of his version of the “book” as well.

Finally, Hymne à Ammon-Ra: Budge here is sourcing his text from a late-19th century French publication entirely in longhand. I don’t feel like dealing with the headache of trying to determine just when the papyrus it’s describing was written, so I’m just going to guess 18th Dynasty like all the others Budge has quoted.

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Given Judaea’s neighborhood and cultural interactions with their neighbors, Mesopotamian creation myths are a more obvious candidate if you were looking for influences. Egyptian texts translated into King James Bible-style English seem much less persuasive, esp. given that while the diction of the translation is Bible-y feeling, the content isn’t.

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Not sure about Einstein but the following did exist some 100,000 years ago.

The following excerpts are from this article:

“The kits used by humans 100,000 years ago to make paint have been found at the famous archaeological site of Blombos Cave in South Africa…”

“…These finds indicate that humans were certainly thinking in a modern way, in a way that is cognitively advanced, at least 100,000 years ago,” he told BBC News…"

“…The mere fact though that paints are being manufactured in a systematic way is indicative of a level of advanced thinking. It would have required a high degree of planning to bring together all of the elements of the kits; and if art really was the purpose, it suggests the cave dwellers of Blombos were capable of symbolic thought - the ability to let one thing represent another in the mind…”

“…This ability has been posited as the giant leap in human evolution that set our species apart from the rest of the animal world…”

"…Prof Chris Stringer from London’s Natural History Museum commented: “Twenty or 30 years ago, there was a view that Europe was really the place where all the big action was taking place - wonderful painted caves 30,000-35,000 years ago, and people decorating their bodies…”

“…We now know that this behaviour goes back far further in Africa; it goes back to 100,000 years, perhaps even more than 100,000 years…”

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Today’s word of the day week month thread:

non sequitur (noun): A conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement.

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This thread is my favorite Turing Test experiment.

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Does it please you to believe that this thread is your favorite Turing Test experiment?

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I’m just waiting for people to notice and ask about the other bits of conspiratorial history that I’ve seen scattered throughout the posts. I know, or at least have good ideas, as to what some of them mean, but I want others to experience them for themselves. :slight_smile:

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Uh huh. I get it. Black Athena, huh?

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Once when I was young and oblivious as a dual Phil/Classics undergrad some friends and I went to a lecture by an Afrocentrist scholar that was ostensibly on Egypt and physics. I was loosely interested since I was reading up on Aristotle’s Physics and assumed it would be something about how early Egyptian cosmological theories tied into some simple models of nature or something. The prof. delivering the lecture started with an explanation of how certain Egyptian cosmological texts encapsulated ideas described by Stephen Hawking and others, but didn’t stop there, but carried on to explain how Jesus and the Buddha were black, using some Gandharan Buddhist iconography to illustrate the Buddha’s nappy hair. There were a whole lot of other topics wandered through. So, after the talk, me, dumb, sheltered, and clueless white guy that I was, proceeded to happily explain that Buddhists didn’t create any images of the Buddha while he was alive, and it wasn’t until hundreds of years later that Gandharan Buddhist iconography appeared, which a product of Hellenistic influence in Bactria and India. I got a very unfriendly stare and a confusing response that became a bit inflammatory and didn’t get to ask my next question on whether it mattered if earlier cultures accidentally stumbled on something that looked like modern physics if they couldn’t do the math to back it up. After that I learned more about Black Athena and the whole Afrocentric position, which is good to know about at a minimum for knowing where the minefields are.

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Black Athena was mainly just concerned with Greece, was it not?

(Regardless: I’d definitely agree we’re looking at a hyper-diffusionist worldview, given some of the comments about non-Greek & non-African cultures.)

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Black Athena was part of a wider phenomena. Yes, that one book was concerned with Greece (and Egypt).

Frankly, I associate the phenomena with the people that find the theology of the Nation of Islam (as opposed to actual Islam) appealing with its talk of African civilizations being the source of all high culture and technology and the Europeans having stolen it from them after being cast out (as mutant aberrations).

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Of course Jesus is a mythical character, but I have heard that Chris Rock has made the claim that Jesus was black. Funny you channel Chris Rock as he is poised to host the Academy Awards “Oscas” tonight.

The scriptures in the Bible that make some people claim Jesus was black (as far as I know) are found in the books of Revelation and Matthew. Revelation’s gives a discription of Jesus (if one accepts it as such). Matthew tells the story of when King Herod wanted to see and praise the infant Jesus, only to be mocked by wise men; then in anger orders the slaughter of infant children in Bethlehem.

Prior to this God had instructed Jesus’s father Joseph, to take the infant Jesus into Egypt and hide him for protection among the people of Egypt. God then says at the appropriate date he will fulfill his directive “Out of Egypt have I called my son”

Some people believe the ancient Egyptians were African. Since Egypt is on the continent of Africa, they deduct that God was hiding the infant Jesus among a population of people who had a similar skin color, allowing the infant Jesus (and his family) to blend in undetected among the Afrcan-Kemetic (Egyptian) population.

People claim burnt brass turns black. Some black people have hair like wool (as do people of other ethnicities).

Revelation 1:14-15

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.know are:

Matthew 2:7-16

7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

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It also follows up by describing him as having a sword coming out of his mouth and his face as shining like the sun. To say any description found within should not be taken literally shouldn’t need to be said, and yet…

Of course, you’re using a single English translation as proof,1 so I don’t know what I was expecting.

On the positive side, you didn’t add an ‘s’ to “Revelation”. So the post has that going for it at least.

1. The brass line, for instance, varies significantly between versions. Is it burnt in a furnace? Glowing as if heated in one? Shining as if refined and polished? The answer all depends on which translation you read.

Edit: Which isn’t to argue whether or not a historical Jesus was black. Given racial makeup of the region, he could very well have been — it’s almost certain that he was not anything we would recognize as white. But the Book of Revelation should not be used as evidence of anything except maybe that John of Patmos would have been well served by cutting back on the mushrooms.

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I’m fairly sure @khepra is a Jesus Myther. We had a long fruitless discussion of this above.

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Yeah. I seem to recall that as well.

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You see, this thread is a circle…

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