Rachel Maddow has 2005 Trump tax return; White House publishes details in advance of her show

Do you mean
a) is the paper Maddow is talking about a legit rendition of Drumpf’s 2005 tax return, or
b) was the tax return Drumpf filed in 2005 a legit statement of his financial obligations in that year?

MSNBC ran it by Drumpfs tax lawyer, and they said it was legit what was filed. The guts of it also closely matches what the WH released moments after Maddow announced it.

Which, by the way …
PRESS: Release you tax returns!
DRUMPF: I can’t
IRS: Yes you can
PEOPLE: Release your tax returns!
DRUMPF: No one is interested
PEOPLE: Yes we are
DRUMPF: Squirrel!
PRESS: Release your tax returns!
DRUMPF: No
MADDOW: I have his tax returns, and will be talking about them in 45 minutes
DRUMPF: Here they are!

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Rachel Maddow is not fake news. There may be more storytelling to it, but she has shown real ethics in her career. Lump her in with Bannon or Fox or anyone worth doubting when they talk, at the peril of your own understaning of the media.

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aaaand Drumpf has stated he wants to scrap AMT, which accounts for about 80% of the tax he did pay.

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Fucking hell, I need an accountant revolution.

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I’m not suggesting that she would knowingly produce fake news, and I’m sure that she checked out her source very carefully, and it’s not a plant. I just like confirmation if possible. (I’m used to following Scientology stories, so I expect byzantine plots.)

I suggest you wait until after you have watched the upcoming broadcast before you seek proof of something she hasn’t presented yet.

Perhaps she will be the source of that proof. Be patient. She will deliver. I can’t say that about many journalists.

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A few years back when Mitt Romney’s taxes were the hot subject of debate, I had a chance to speak to a tax lawyer who works in New York City on wealthy people’s taxes. What he told me is that if the main reason that they wanted to get Romney’s tax records out there is because when normal people see how rich people do their taxes they would be totally appalled. Because when you get into these upper brackets there are so many dodges and work arounds that are available to you that are not available to normal people. So I think that even with these these records from 2005 there’s a hope get people upset about the different treatment that the very wealthy have in our tax laws. Without the more in-depth details i’m not sure whether they can really prove the kind of financial shenanigans and corruption that we suspect Trump engaged in. However I do think that Rachel Maddow is putting Trump on notice that they are going to find his tax records and publish them if he doesn’t release them.

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Trump leaks the tax return best proving his point in secret and then releases it publicly to prove he isn’t scared before it airs. It’s one of the fundamentals of What PR people do at least on TV dramas…

This is now going to be both the WH’s proof Trump has nothing to hide and that he pays more than “his fair share” as a job creator. I’m sure someone will stroll in saying something about him being smart for not paying too much taxes any moment in here.

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are you disappointed in BoingBoing Maddow?

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My original question was more general than that. I was wondering if there is anyone at the IRS with the authority to confirm or deny the accuracy of any tax return which has been publicly released.

If Trump were to produce all his tax returns tomorrow, would there be anyone who could say “Yup, those are the real deal!” or “What the heck are those? Nope! No way!”

Normally it’s not something I’d expect anyone to lie about, but if there’s no one checking…

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You should watch the broadcast. Your point is explicitly addressed by the source of the paperwork.

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why would you assume that? That IS her job. That IS what she is doing. She is the one checking.

Has trump successfully destroyed any hope of faith you might have in any part of the media? Don’t give him that power.

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Off topic but from what I understand totally possible. But impractical and expensive in terms of resources. And usually unnecessary. You can usually pull an end round on Tor using regular investigative techniques. Investigate what a user did coming out of Tor properly and you can usually find sufficient information to identify a person, or otherwise connect what you’re investigating to un-Tored internets activity. Then you’ve already got what breaking Tor would get you. If you need to establish the chain through Tor for some reason its as simple as confirming that the person in-question did connect to Tor at the time, and laying out the evidence connecting the activity on either side.

People are stupid, and they tend to assume things like Tor magically shields everything they’re doing. I’ve heard stories like user connects to child porn site through Tor node, then stays on that Tor connection to check their online banking. Trace the activity from the porn site to the Tor node, then trace the other connections that user made. Hey look we have his name and address, no need to break Tor. Or people using the same logins on multiple discussion boards. One discussion board is say Boing Boing BBS, and you hit it without Tor. The other is I’mplanningaterrorattack.darknet/evil. Investigator is looking at the latter. Deadends at Tor. Google searches the user name, finds the posts to BBBBS and now you have something to investigate that doesn’t require fucking with Tor.

But yeah if there are no other options, its considered sufficiently important, and you have the resources you could totally just slowly work your way through Tor from one end to the other. And state entities and large companies are just about the only people out there with the funds for it to ever hit the “worthwhile” point on that.

What Oliver is doing is far more in the realm of Journalism than most of his peers in late night. And unlike some of your other political/news satirists/comedians he seems generally uninterested in the “I’m just a guy telling jokes” dodge when it comes down to the question of journalism or not journalism. Basically he’s bringing back the hard, investigative “TV Magazine” style of television journalism. Fewer but longer and more deeply researched pieces on a limited release schedule with long deadlines. Its a format that’s been sorely missing from the airwaves since cable brought us the 24 hour spin cycle in the 90’s.

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You’re not listening.

Is there anyone at the IRS with the authority to confirm or deny the accuracy of any publicly released tax return?

It’s a yes or no answer question.

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not after that declarative sentence about what I am doing wrong, no I am not going to listen to you further.

So glad I responded to you! Thank you for the kind answers to my rather fair questions.

Sorry, I didn’t see any questions, just a wall of platforming. Have a nice night.

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your choice.

Be sure to protect that cynicism of yours. it’s so rare in this world after all!

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I think that may be the interesting bit. Because it’s a weird number.

Let’s assume someone is a capital billionaire, who inherited Daddy’s packet of money and is just living off the dividends/interest/rents. Everything’s in long-term investments, nothing gets messed with, and everything gets taxed at the long-term capital gains rate (which was 15% in 2005). With a billion bucks producing the average good ROI of 10%, that means $100M in income, of which the Feds get 15% ($15M) and our nominal billionaire has $85M a year to roll around in, pay rent, buy stupid shoes, pay the assholes who manage the packet and put children through college. Easy enough to do, with a tax rate of 15%. This someone could literally do nothing with his days but smoke bowls and eat Cheetos and would still be exceedingly comfortable.

Let’s assume this someone is not capable of sitting still and bong-hitting his way through $85M a year. Our someone gets a limited run TV show that pays $3M an episode for 14 episodes a year. That will be taxed at the income rate, which in 2005 was either 39%, or the 35% AMT rate, paying $14.7M on $42M. Assume the lower, which puts gross total income at $142M a year, total tax bill of $29.7M, and pushes the tax rate up to 20% total.

So… that other $8M in income, $8.3M in taxes and and 5% on the tax rate that comes from… where? Short-term capital gains? Churn? Russian suitcases full of money? But 2005 was a dog of a stock-market year – it lost 200 points between Jan 1 and Dec 31 and was all over the trend map, up to 10,800, down to 10,100. Credit was tight, money was expensive because that was year 3 of Shrub’s War on Nouns and we were looking at a mini-recession. Real estate was janky that year – while the middle class was fine on regular fixed, insured mortgages, the luxury buyers were in a credit crunch. (Also, if this was a normal to better than average year for Cheeto-duster, then he’s barely an asset billionaire, and not anywhere close to an income billionaire. He’s not in the same class with Gates, Musk, Buffett or Soros, and he’s nowhere near the oligarchs’ playground. Which may be what’s gotten him and us into this quagmire. He really wants to be on that team, and a classless trust-funder from Queens just doesn’t play at that level.) I doubt the extra funds and taxation were entirely short-term gains given that it was a bad year, and there’s a fairly large write-down in there to account for, as well. Given that developers usually are leveraged up to their eyebrows, if not their hairlines, how much damage did a credit crunch do? Is that why we’re getting 2005 now, because it’s the best of the bad lot?

I don’t know what the hole is, but there is a hole in these numbers.

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