If you have an employer, tweet the same image and cc that employer. Would they think it’s not racist?
If I tweet the same image and cc the KKK then they will feel emboldened and empowered. If I cc my neighbour of African heritage, they will feel distressed and menaced.
Whether he is racist or not is besides the point, and uselessly debatable. The tweet was racist, and he sent it.
OMG. Iannucci’s “Time Trumpet” was so pointed at Baker’s “nostalgia-porn” shows.
This is the be-all-and-end-all of the discussion. There is no way any of us can “see into the heart of a man” and judge his intentions and beliefs. What we can do is see his actions, statements and outcomes, and judge appropriately. I do not know what is in this guys heart of hearts, but his tweet was incredibly racist. QED.
As always:
And here’s the thing, as a person of color;
I don’t care if he ‘means it’ or not, and I don’t care what’s in his fucking heart.
The negative consequences of his words and actions still have an exponentially detrimental effect on other people because of his amplified platform, no matter what his actual intent may have been.
Anyone who makes ‘jokes’ like that is basically establishing themselves as ‘friends of my enemy,’ and I will treat them accordingly.
Good for you, buttercup. Two more you earn your cookie.
This is my dilemma too. I’ve been listening to - and been a fan of - Baker for three decades at least, and never once pegged him as someone who would indulge in this sort of casual racism. It was a genuine surprise and disappointment to me.
But it was also entirely unacceptable and the BBC did the right thing in sacking him immediately rather than waffling around as they have previously been known to do.
And yet I shall really miss his show; he is one of the most natural radio presenters I’ve ever heard.
What a terrible thing to suggest! The Royals aren’t as inbred as they were in past generations. /s
Spike Milligan never “happened” in the USA and he is brilliant. Same with people like Ronny Barker. I think, in general, the US picks the worst from other popular cultures, not the best. And Piers Morgan is too much of a wanker to be accepted anywhere.
I didn’t realize he might be dehumanizing an innocent baby for defensible classist reasons. Now I feel bad for him. /s
Yes, the word “niggardly” has always just meant (approximately) mean spirited and miserly, or pinch-penny, or compulsively parsimonious, with connotations of fussy pettiness, and has nothing to do, historically or etymologically, with the N-word, even though the first syllable is the same. The first syllable of the river and country Niger looks the same as the n-word, too, although it’s pronounced with a long ‘i’. I have heard Americans mis-pronounce it and complain that the name is racist and should be changed. And I once heard someone assert that Spanish is a racist language because it’s word for “black” is “negro” - a total misunderstanding of the history of the use of those two words.
Ignorance is everywhere.
Myself, I stopped using “niggardly” a long time ago and just use “miserly” or “pinch-penny” instead, even though the connotations are not quite the same. Too many people are not well-read enough to know the word, so it doesn’t communicate what I want to communicate.
It has mostly disappeared from spoken English because of its sound, so today people usually encounter it in English literature and American literature written before the last half of the 20th century, where it’s almost always used about miserly Anglo men and women - which is VERY confusing if you incorrectly assume it’s a synonym for the n-word. As an example, Ebeneezer Scrooge in Dicken’s “A Christmas Carol” was a niggardly man until the ghosts got after him.
It can also occasionally be heard in English departments and well-read literary circles, because it does have connotations of fussy pettiness that are lacking in it’s synonyms, so it serves a purpose among people who know what it means and when to use it.
If someone smirks when they say “niggardly”, or is obviously using it because of the similarity in sound to the n-word, that’s as ignorant as thinking it’s a synonym for the n-word - it’s childish and stupid. They’re probably not using it correctly, either. That kind of person will call you a poopy-head and think they have insulted you.
I know people who will insist up down and sideways that they aren’t racist, but who always seem to bring up race in this jovial/joking way. They’ll say “I don’t notice race” except they regularly make half-assed jokes that serve no purpose except remind their black co-worker of his skin color.
I don’t know squat about Danny Baker, but even if you take race out of the equation I don’t see the humor in calling someone’s newborn child a chimp.
Let’s run with your idea that he was somehow unaware of one of the most obvious and long standing racist tropes. That would still be an incredible reason to fire them and mock them. You fire them because a radio broadcaster has to avoid broadcasting racist messages to avoid being fined and someone who can’t spot the easy ones is too dumb to do the job safely.
Comparing the behavior of small children to the behavior of chimps and monkeys was a common meme in the first half of the 20th century. There were cartoons and film clips of chimps or monkeys as babies or toddlers doing naughty or destructive things - and almost always they had white human parents. It was about behavior, not race. So that’s not a current meme, but it’s certainly a historical meme, and was popular when Baker was young.
Since I remember those cartoons and film clips, I can’t agree with people who are claiming that comparing someone to a monkey or ape is always racist - adults, yes, but not kids.
Wait. What? It’s a good and useful word that has a specific meaning and use, that’s unlikely to creep into a context where it should seem racist. Unless I’m misreading you, you seem to be saying that racist people use that word to trolley non-racists who are unaware of the word.
Well, sir, all I can say is … Damn, you know much better educated racists than I do! I wouldn’t be surprised if the ones I know had trouble spelling “PBR.”
Nobody’s saying it’s always racist to depict monkeys as human-like or vice versa. That is a stupid straw-man.
They’re saying this one is, in this context, because choosing to compare someone to a monkey, when it’s a baby well-known to be from a family with black people, is so patently offensive in the worst way.
Except in this case we’re not talking about an infamously unruly preschooler, we’re talking about a perfectly normal newborn baby.
The last few years more a than a few famous folks have been called out for sexist/rapist or racist words and actions. Some of those famous people were popular here on the BBS. While a few tried top defend these people most of us just felt really sad and disappointed that famous folk we thought were good and kind people were actually not.
Many of these famous people have been with us since our childhoods and so besides their sparkling personalities and ability to entertain they are also part of the weave of our lives and conjure some level of nostalgia which is a strong drug to resist.
But at the end of the day. Famous people, entertainers, are a product. Bought and paid for one way or another. They are not our friends or family or best friends. And what do you do if you find a product is toxic to you? You accept that you were mislead and you stop consuming. You don’t, say, well a little melamine is OK in baby formula. No. You throw the shit out and move on.
“Nonsense” is the kindest word I can use in response to your post.
The British press has been full of stories decrying and clutching pearls at the thought that a Royal is married to shudder a Negro. The racists from UKIP on down have been screeching about it since the engagement. Comparing people of African descent to monkeys or chimps has a long and disgusting history in the UK, so common that it’s become a joke itself.
And you have the unspeakable gall to defend this racist piece of crap and say he was completely ignorant. That is disgusting and an insult to our collective intelligence. Correct yourself.
So in order to impress someone who defends racist garbage we’re supposed to comb through decades of BBC archives. And if we do it has to rise to a level that will satisfy your reflexive white-and-I-am-sure-lily-white knighting? What’s the payoff for me? An anonymous defender of racism will bestow his smile? Not worth it when I could spend the time flossing the cat.
I’ll just leave this here and take my chances with Muphry’s Law.
