You’ve totally misrepresented my points. I’m going to ignore you and a few others now, I believe that’s a feature of the BBS? I appreciate your ire and combativeness over the years, as they have been instructive, but I am moving beyond it now. So I suppose this really is the last word? Bye!
(edited, to explain my question)
How do we not participate in (and therefore not support) this system? I would genuinely like to know.
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USians are dumb!
Interesting that Canadians don’t want to be identified as Americans, while many other western hemisphere nations feel that the term has been coopted.
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Did I say that’s possible?
We could die, of course, but I know that’s not what you’re asking. We could head for the woods, build a cabin and live on grubs, but even then, white supremacy has been and still would be a system in which we’re functioning-- that land became available because white supremacists stole it from others, often in the very name itself of white supremacist “superiority.” And if we choose to do that on a “reservation,” well, white supremacy established that too.
There used to be a group of academics who, iirc, thought white people could cast off their whiteness, at least temporarily, by trying to “abolish” whiteness, which meant doing such things as using their white privilege to intervene in racist incidents (like the white guy in the Racist Lady on the Bus video does). But even then, we’re still participating in white supremacy – Good White Guy on the Bus gets taken more seriously in that situation because he’s white, i.e., thanks to white supremacy, he gets regarded and treated differently.
“Loyalty to whiteness is treason to humanity,” I think those “abolitionists” I mentioned used to say. But even if one decides to be disloyal to it, daily life interactions, purchases, places where one lives, and so on, inevitably mean that one participates in white supremacy.
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Well, that’s quite the conundrum. Because we are part of the system, we are therefore participating and tacitly supporting the system, but since we cannot remove ourselves from the system, we are participating and tacitly supporting the system, regardless of our stated positions and actions to the contrary. Is that correct?
It’s structural. So we stop participating in it when that structure is destroyed or evolves into a more equal one.
It’s not rocket surgery.
ETA: Whining about not being able to escape the system is a symptom of the disease.
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By your argument, if you have a higher count of melanin than someone else and are thus a victim of institutional racism you’re a supporter of that because you’re a unwilling participant?
No. It doesn’t work that way.
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I tend to agree with you, but think it’s also true if you have less melanin in your skin than others. We all “participate in the system.” The word “support” means something specific, and has some very obvious implications. If participating in something means actively supporting it, then Bernie Sanders is “actively supporting” runaway capitalism, because he buys shit using money. This essentially makes the word “support” meaningless.
My view is, live your life. By the end of it, based on the power that you do have to make the choices that confront you day after day, have you used your choices to affect a net positive on the world, or a net negative? Aim for positive. Try your best. Work to make the world both better in your own interpersonal interactions and, when possible, at a societal level as well. As more and more people do this, the world becomes a better place.
“It’s not rocket surgery,” as they say…
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“I’d like to buy the world a home
and furnish it with love
grow apple trees and honey bees
and snow white turtle doves
I’d like to each the world to sing
in perfect harmony
I’d like to buy the world a coke
and keep it company
that’s the real thing
I’d like to teach the world to sing
in perfect harmony
I’d like to buy the world a coke
and keep it company
that’s the real thing”
If only sugar water and soft focus was the answer.
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Not quite sure I understand your point here. Are you saying that people shouldn’t do what they can in life to make the world a better place?
I’m not the one whining about it. I’m asking how to avoid participating in/supporting it, after being told I can’t avoid participating in/supporting it. If it’s not “rocket surgery (science)”, explaining it should be easy. Do we ride the bus instead of drive? Buy organic vegetables at the local farmer’s market? Refuse to buy anything new?
Indeed they should!
(Random vagueness attributed to checking out for the evening’s festivities. Stupid racist people on buses are not going to mess up my fun tonight. Cheers!)
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Heheh have fun tonight, watch out for crazy drivers, yada yada. 
I think the trick is to acknowledge that participating in it is not optional, unless you totally drop out of society, and even then, you’re still probably participating in it.
What you can do, with the choices you have available to you, is try to counterbalance this participation with actions and perspectives that work against the racism baked into the system. How one does that is different for everybody – we all have different choices available to us, after all. There is no magic answer, and no answer that is right for everybody.
Support progressive causes. Vote for progressive candidates. Support minority businesses. Treat the people you encounter in life as equally worthy of respect, despite topical things like the color of their skin. If/when you slip, recognize it, attempt to make amends if necessary, and get back to work.
You sound like you’re very open to trying to live in a way that betters the world, and for all I know you’re already doing all of the above. My personal advice – don’t let those who cling to toxic anger to the point of approaching nihilism tell you that the above types of things do not matter or affect positive change. They DO.
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Yes, we all “participate in the system” due to factors beyond our control – that’s the whole basis for things like white privilege, male privilege, etc. Just because we “participate” at some level doesn’t mean we’re hopeless to fight against it. There’s no reason someone who’s white and male for example can’t subvert this privilege to benefit others. It’s just that all too many who are comfortable with their lot in life would rather fight against making things better for others, lest they lose any of their precious privilege by someone else being able to have more advantages because to them everything in life is a zero sum game.
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Yes, this! The idea that “winning at society” even is a zero sum game is a ridiculous notion IMO. I’d even say it’s at the core of the mental shackles that hold back our world. We can make this place better for everyone, if by “better” you have a more expansive definition than “can use extreme wealth to dominate others and simultaneously make the world a worse place.”
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“Something something socialism”
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