Re: Patriotism


#1

Continuing the discussion from What I told the kid who wanted to join the NSA:

Patriotism isn’t just for nationalists, though. Species patriotism must trump national patriotism every time. When one’s nation is working against the entire human race, you’re not a traitor to oppose that work, you’re an even bigger patriot.


#2

The trouble is that “Patriotism” gets hijacked for a particular attitude.

I love Australia. It’s a great place, and I only want good things for it.
But my attitude as to “What’s Good” is quite different to people who claim to be Patriotic.


#3

I won’t claim to be a patriot: to me patriotism is doing something, not saying something. It’s sure as hell not in bumper magnets or flag lapel pins.

But as an American I also feel that our patriotism is about loyalty to an ideal, not merely a piece of dirt or a particular incidence of inbreeding, and that’s something that is deeply important to me.

Of course, others disagree.[quote=“anansi133, post:1, topic:70598”]
My God that’s sad. This country eats patriots.
[/quote]

Also, I thought this was “This country eats parrots.” Which is also sad, but understandable if you live in an extremely protein-poor high-canopy rainforest.


#4

Patriotism, nationalism, the whole bit, is extremely subjective.


#5

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Edit: Sorry, I meant الوطنية هي الملاذ الأخير للأوغاد .


#6

For certain values of “patriot,” I say fuck patriotism in the eyeball. If human life and welfare becomes worth less than imaginary lines on a map to you, fuck your patriotism. Nations are formed to benefit people, and should not simply fulfill the platitude “men must be governed!” You want to throw up a flag and fight the Nazis wholeheartedly, I’m there. That’s a cause I can get behind even if there may have been other less noble motives at play. You want to kinda sorta bomb ISIS while having zero fundamental respect for the people fleeing it because they’re not from your country… I don’t know what to call that. If you want burn millions of people alive in a dick measuring contest where the consequence is the extermination of human life worldwide just to not lose (something?)… I don’t know what to call that. If you want to arrest people for leaving water in the desert so that people do not die of thirst… I don’t know what to call that.

But some people call that patriotism, God help them.


#7

For a great many of that kind of patriot, God has got their back. Well, their God at least.


#8

Arise children of the fatherland!
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny’s
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

To arms citizens!
Form your battalions!
March, march
Let impure blood
Water our furrows


#9

I get your point. For me, it means taking responsibility for the place I’m allowed to vote. I can’t very well take responsibility for Daesh, now can I? But I’ve never subscribed to either form of American exceptionalism.


#10

Sigh. It’s going to be like October 2001 all over again

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/armed-patriots-turn-protests-toward-muslim-americans/

DALLAS — They are known as “Three Percenters,” followers of a movement that has rallied against gun control efforts nationwide, patrolled the U.S. border with Mexico and recently begun confronting Muslim Americans.

Followers describe themselves as armed “patriots.” But some of their leaders have been blamed for threats and vandalism against lawmakers, police and Muslims. One prominent member from Phoenix prompted an FBI alert in November after posting an expletive-filled Facebook video saying he was headed to upstate New York with guns to challenge a Muslim group. A Three Percenter in suburban Dallas led a mosque protest by armed, masked men that same month.


#11

I don’t identify with countries or species, people often tell me that my views are compatible with neither, and I have no reason to argue this.

I find “patriotism” to usually be a cynical, treacherous concept. It’s root means that The State is Father to its inhabitants, which is both literally and figuratively patronizing to citizens. Besides the patriarchal associations, this also connotes an authoritarian outlook which I find extremely disagreeable.

It depends upon from whence one considers the authority of the state to derive. From the citizens, or the offices? A state can only earn my respect through equitable relations, which means that it answers to the people who comprise it, the offices and their officials have power only as is given to them by the citizens.


#12

I admit, I enjoyed his first album.


#13

I don’t disagree entirely. I will acknowledge my appreciation of what the state has done for me, and a rabid devotion to communities. But we have fought bloody wars over this idea, so it is settled for a bit.

I am a patriot to the point of, “we all agreed on this $THING. Wanna change $THING? Well, it takes a quorum. I’ll see you at lunch”


#14

For me, devotion to a nation isn’t patriotism, it’s jingoism. Patriotism is allegiance to a community and its home. That can be a country. If you’re a patriot to your country, then you must also be a patriot to the world, and vice versa, because what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. A patriot isn’t a sycophant, and a sycophant isn’t a patriot. A patriot is a someone who puts the interests of the community before his or her own immediate personal interests where the two conflict.

Of course that’s just how I use the word. My definition is no more or less valid that anyone else’s usage. It’s useful only in expressing what I mean when using it, not in telling them how to use it. Likewise, their usage is useful in expressing what they mean when using it, not in telling me how to use it. Anyone who cares more about words than what people mean when using them may wish to examine why their emotional reaction depends more on a pattern of lines or sounds than what someone is saying.


#15

Because they are only using three percent of their mental faculties?


#16

Also, that link doesn’t appear to work. Article has been moved/taken down?

I did see this though: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-gun-rights-activists-students-face-off-in-austin/ar-BBntFNw

Jebus. >.<


#17

Try this?


#18

How are these fuckers not sitting pretty in Guantanamo? They are an out-and-out terrorist organisation!

Oh, wait, they be white. Silly me!


#20

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