Religious Quotes with Sexist and Slavery Scriptures from the Religious Books of Christianity and Judaism

You are citing Wikipedia.

What has been settled by afro-centric scholars since the 1970’s and today is we have culturally biased, dogmatic and arrogant eurocentric scholars who want to dismiss the contribution of Africa, specifically Kemet to world hjstory, while attempting to portray the Greeks and Romans as the cradle and origin of civilization.

Making the claim that a ancient African country located on the African continent was European, Arab, or a melting pot is blatant institutionalized racism-- and nothing new.

No one questions the ethnicity of Greece or Rome.

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True, I mentioned “casual googling.”

Not sure what you mean by that. Whatever the ethnicity of Greece might be claimed to be is hard to say given the history (which Greece exactly?), though contemporary academics tend to mention that old Victorian and earlier romanticizing was in many ways a pretext and justification for cultural imperialism, and whatever the ancient Greeks looked like, they definitely weren’t the pale northern Europeans they are often mis-portrayed as. What the Greeks are notable for are artistic, intellectual, political, and cultural developments that had nothing to do with the color of their skin, and the later cultures who adopted some of their better (and worse) ideas were ethnically distinct. Much of the talk of contemporary scholars on race is to dismiss the ideas you’re suggesting they’re proponents of - there’s a now lot of pages spilled detailing the sources of the cultural borrowings by Greece, including the Egyptian influences on Minoan, Mycenaean, and early Greek art and architecture (and math). That romanticizing you mention is something modern academics actually take great pedantic delight in ripping into even if it persists in the popular imagination and terrible movies - subverting cultural hegemony something is something many of them have as a hobby given that they work in Humanities departments.

Rome at its height was a massive multi-ethnic empire. If you go back to the early Republic there’s more homogeneity, but even then the whole idea of the project was to band together smaller political entities through contractual obligations for a claimed mutual benefit without any interest in ethnicity (which quickly expanded into militarist conquest, though they preferred contracts to legions). They didn’t have the modern idea of race, accepted/conquered people into their political alliances regardless of their skin shades, intermarried a lot, and wound up with many African Romans, some who rose to great prominence, among the notable being emperor Septimius Severus, Terence, Apuleius, Tertullian, and Augustine. Since Romans didn’t have the modern idea of race they didn’t really note people’s ethnicities unless they were trying to slag some foreign group they were at war with, and then they were more likely to be flinging crude stereotypes at Celts or Germans than sub-Saharan Africans. The Romans were very tribalist, but they had no modern notion of race. Romanness, whatever it meant, was never about being pale skinned (esp. since the original Latin peoples who founded the city weren’t), and there isn’t anything you could reasonably call an ethnicity of Rome.

I can’t say what ancient Egyptian skin color looked like, but I will say that I am very sure that if contemporary scholars who look into the matter currently believe that the Egyptian populace was a mix of different groups with different skin tones or whatever, they do so for reasons other than institutionalized racism. I knew Egyptologists in school and did some classes with them - they aren’t at all who you think they are, their motives and approaches to research aren’t what you think they are, and your ideas about what they do aren’t accurate.

Regardless, even if your ideas about Egypt’s race and influence were completely correct, the way you approach the problem reifies racism and propagates the problem I assume you’d like to solve - racism is based on fundamentally ignorant ideas about what it means to be a human being, you can’t solve that by dwelling on the race of some people from a few millennia ago.

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This was the first indication you don’t know what you are talking about. The Christians include texts that are not within Tanakh as part of their so called Old Testament.

I’ll also point out that regarding you should be advised that any legal statements from Torah:

  1. Don’t try and work from a Christian sourced English translation
  2. Don’t even bother trying to make claims on them unless you can work through the relevant Talmud/Gemara/Tosafot as well as the Mishneh Torah and Shulchan Aruch legal commentaries.

Best wishes for 2016,

Your resident Orthodox Jew.

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So… You’re saying it takes time, study, dedication, and humility to understand these texts? (Do I get a point for stating the obvious?)

I hope you and yours have a wonderful 2016.

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You have to be kidding me,

You obviously don’t know what the books are that comprise the O!d Testament of the Bible and Tanakh of Judaism --and you say you are an Orthodox Jew–hmmm…

http://www.devotions.net/bible/00old.htm
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Bible/jpstoc.html
Religion:The Tanakh

“Though the terms “Bible” and “Old Testament” are commonly used by non-Jews to describe Judaism’s scriptures, the appropriate term is “Tanach,” which is derived as an acronym from the Hebrew letters of its three components: Torah, Nevi’im and Ketuvim.”

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First you have to know what the Tanakh and Old Testament is–and the same books that comprise both.

See the post above with links to the Jewish Virtual Library and books of the Old Testament.

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Perhaps they are referring to the Apocrypha?

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Anybody can claim to be a scholar, the current scholars you speak of know nothing of African-Kemetic culture or religion, if they make the ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim that the ethnicity of ancient Kemet was Arab, European or a melting pot. This same old claim has been made, repeated and debunked since the 1970’s.

You may want to read this link below --The bust is Queen Tiye, the grandmother of Tutankhamen (King Tut), mother of Akhenaten, step-mother of Nefertiti, and the wife of Pharoah Amenhotep III.The exhibit of this well known and documented African-Kemetic royal family has toured museums in America and around the world.

FYI,

The people in ancient Kemet gave themselves and their gods African names not Arab or European names: Ramses, Tutankhamen, Hetshepsut, Amenhotep, Akhenaten, Osiris, Tehuti, Isis, Nefertiti, Queen Tiye, Amen-Ra, Heru (Horus), Menahutep, Hathor, Nephthys, Ptah, Atum, Aten etc…

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Read the above post above with link to:

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Did you know that it’s possible to have very dark brown skin and textured black hair and yet not have any sub-Saharan African heritage (within the past 10,000 years)?

Or that there has been so much emphasis on Africa (the opposite of your claimed prejudice against recognition of Africa as the source of all humankind) that it’s only recently that researchers are finding proof of non-out-of-Africa “races” of humans?

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Why don’t you inform me, everyone can learn new things.

While you are at it, explain to me what are:

“non-out-of-Africa “races” of humans”

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That’s a quote from the piece you linked, but image management is the tool of your oppressor. Isn’t it? Are we rising above, or are we beating them at their own game here?

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Maybe, I don’t know.

However, I was referring to the Tanakh and Old Testament specifically.

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It is not a competition to me, us against them, it is about accurate history–wherever it leads.

There should be no ethnic agenda when it comes to documenting history and the contributions of all ethnic groups on earth. That is what many Afro-centric scholars have called for, not to diminish the improvements and contributions of the Greeks, Romans, Asia–but to give credit to the contributions of all ethnic groups to world history and development.

The Ancient Greeks and Romans had no issue with giving credit to Africa-Kemet. One way you know of the contributions of Africa-Kemet is by studying the Greeks and Romans. Alexander the Great is a great example of this–and many in Rome were obsessed with AfricanKemetic religion and culture.

Racism is a much later phenomenon in world history.

My oppressor!

No one is personally oppressing me.

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To arrive at an accurate understanding of history requires looking at the work of other (academic) historians (et al.) working in the field in good faith (even the ones saying things you really don’t like) and making a sincere effort to understand what they are saying and how they arrive at those accounts. Suggesting that historical analysis of a topic was settled in the 70s when the most effective methods of investigation with a vast amount of new research, evidence, and data became available more recently suggest you’ve got prejudices against some historians that are keeping you from considering their work in good faith. You won’t have an accurate account until you’ve done that. Making a grand claim of institutionalized racism in modern academic scholarly research to dismiss a giant body of recent research necessarily leads to inaccurate history (it’s also absurd, though I’ve already rambled on about that).

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That’s my point. It’s not quite that simple.
Whether a book belongs to the Old Testament or not is dependent on which branch of Christianity you are referring to. I’m not sure whether that’s also true for the Tanakh, but the Apocrypha were part of the Septuagint, which means that at some point, some Jews considered them to be part of their holy Scripture.

More to the point: I think an Orthodox Jew may be on a better position to tell you what he considers to be part of the Tanakh than you are. Perhaps a better attitude when someone with presumably more knowledge on a particular subject disagrees with you isn’t, “You’re wrong, and my five minutes of scholarship on the Internet tells me so,” but rather, “I’m sorry, but my five minutes of scholarship on the Internet led me to that conclusion. Can you please explain to me where I went wrong?”

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Sort of, in that the Apocrypha is generally defined as consisting of both Old (and in some early cases, New Testament) books found in the Roman Catholic biblical canon but not in Protestant ones.

Books found in some Old Testaments but not in the Tanakh are generally referred to as deuterocanonical books, as they can contain some books that are not in the Apocrypha. From what I recall the Roman Catholic deuterocanonical books are probably the smallest set of deuterocanonical books currently in use among non-Protestant churches.

One of the big issues with saying “the Old Testament is exactly the same as the Tanakh” is that it assumes there is one definitive Old Testament canon. There isn’t, and whether the statement is true or not will depend on which branch of Christianity the speaker is referring to and/or which branch the listener interprets it as being about.

For instance: the Eastern Orthodox churches largely follow the Septuagint, a 3rd century BCE translation of various Hebrew writings into Koine Greek that contains both the Tanakh and various pieces that are considered non-canonical among Jews. Not all of these books accepted by the Eastern Orthodox churches as canon are considered such by the Roman Catholic Church. (Though even then it varies between churches. The Georgian Orthodox branch uses a slightly larger Old Testament canon than do the Greek or Slavonic branches.)

I’m even less familiar with the various Oriental Orthodox churches’ canons, save that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is considered to have the largest Old Testament canon of any church in existence. In several cases they make use of books that are found nowhere else.

This is, of course, ignoring those spots where books may appear to overlap between churches, but the contents of the books themselves may differ. (Daniel, I’m looking at you.)

All of this is to say: making a single sweeping statement can be close to impossible.

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Here’s a list of the different canon texts in different Bibles (bear in mind that the Hebrew Bible combines a number of books that are separate in Christian versions, so the Protestant and Hebrew Bibles contain the same texts. Also, the source texts for the Christian translations were historically the Septuagint and follow that order, whereas now they keep the order of the Septuagint but base the translations on the Hebrew Bible):


In addition to the Protestant texts, the Ethiopian Bible contains:

  1. Jublee
  2. Ezra (2nd) and Ezra Sutuel
  3. Tobit
  4. Judith
  5. I Maccabees
  6. II and III Maccabees
  7. Tegsats (Reproof)
  8. Metsihafe Tibeb (the books of wisdom)
  9. Book of Joshua the son of Sirac
  10. The Book of Josephas the Son of Bengorion

And in the NT:

  1. Sirate Tsion (the book of order)
  2. Tizaz (the book of Herald)
  3. Gitsew
  4. Abtilis
  5. The I book of Dominos
  6. The II book of Dominos
  7. The book of Clement
  8. Didascalia

Interestingly enough, John Wesley used the Apocrypha and a number of Protestant churches used/use it as texts of secondary importance (i.e. useful for teaching, but not for establishing doctrine).

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What new methods of investigation are available today that prove the people of Africa-Kemet were European, Arab or some melting pot?

What new methods of investigation has trumped and changed what a primary, secondary, tertiary, and radio carbon dating source is?

People need to pay attention to what happened in the past, especially the 70’s, because it makes it easy to refute the same tired and parroted eurocentric biased claims about ancient Africa-Kemet being European, Arab or some melting pot.

There are no new methods of investigation, maybe new methods of attempting to use fraud to misrepresent what the ethnicity of ancient Afrca-Kemet was.

You are making the same ethnic biased claims about the ethnicity of Africa-Kemet that were made by biased eurocentric historians in the 1970’s. The following is an example of dogmatic and institutional historical racism.

Christopher Columbus discovered America

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Which no one has said on this thread (or forum).

Do you have any other interests? You don’t seem interested in learning that others don’t actually think about this subject in the negative, prejudicial way you assume they do, so you’re not going to be satisfied with this thread no matter how long it continues. Why not start or join other topics on completely different subjects?

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