Religious Quotes with Sexist and Slavery Scriptures from the Religious Books of Christianity and Judaism

general topics
81

Genetic analysis would tell you what their genetic makeup was (whatever it was). No serious academic scholars are saying Egyptians were European, BTW.

Genetic analysis is a primary source and trumps everything else. Even contemporary artistic representations will be distorted by cultural stylistic bias and subjective judgment, especially given how heavily stylized Egyptian art was. Genetic analysis is much more immune to eurocentric (or afro-centric) bias and far more reliable.

I’ve made no claims at all about what the Egyptian people’s skin color looked like. I don’t know and never spent time looking into it, since it’s at most a trivial topic. The Egyptians were notable influences in the development of many later cultures around the Mediterranean, a fact that’s fully recognized by contemporary ancient historians, but it wasn’t because of their skin color. I’ve pointed out a few spots where you severely mischaracterized contemporary academic research on Greece and Rome (I’ll quibble about that a lot since I know more about it), pointed out that there are important developments post-70s, and recommended you try to see past your biases to arrive at a more accurate account of ancient history since you are criticizing things with blanket statements and general dismissals that show you aren’t really familiar with what you’re dismissing and haven’t looked at it in good faith.

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82

Major communication problem.

Versions, interpretations and translations needed for what is supposed to be the word of an omnipotent and omnipresent supreme creator god.

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83

I’m not religious anymore, I just find it interesting. I know Evangelicals, Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Jews who look at the next iteration of a thoroughly human process as wrong. Now you’re putting something else one before them. I’m not surprised that there are roots to Judaism and errors of transmission / changes all along the way. It’s what I would expect if I hadn’t already heard it. I just don’t give the preceding version any more credence, because I don’t think there’s a point in the forgotten past when God actually talked to humans and it was perfectly received.

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84
Interestingly enough, John Wesley used the Apocrypha and a number of Protestant churches used/use it as texts of secondary importance (i.e. useful for teaching, but not for establishing doctrine).

I did not know that bit about Wesley, and actually find it somewhat fascinating.

(I knew the Anglican Church has had an at times complicated relationship with the Apocrypha, but didn’t know about other mainline Protestants. I suppose I shouldn’t be entirely surprised in this case, given that Welsey was an ordained minister of the CoE and that position is IIRC in keeping with that church’s official stance on those works.)

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85

Ok, have done and will do more of.

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86

Well, Wesley was originally Anglican and while he did take out the clause recognising the Apocrypha in the Articles of Religion, apparently there is plenty of evidence that he often used it for inspiration.

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87

I see that. Becoming a part of the community instead of staying in one corner is more fun, don’t you think? (Says the introvert!)

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88

This is the case for the LDS Church as well. Song of Solomon is not considered canon, but it stays in their KJV Bibles.

“Teaching but not establishing doctrine” is right on the nose. Sometimes you’ll hear LDS speakers reference Maccabees or others.

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89

You just can’t say things and dismiss things.

You posted;

“Even contemporary artistic representations will be distorted by cultural stylistic bias and subjective judgment, especially given how heavily stylized Egyptian art was”

You seriously need to re-think this comment. What ethnic names people choose for themselves and their gods and goddesses—and how people draw themselves and depict themselves in art is one of the most reliable ways to learn what they were and looked like.

You posted;

“I’ve made no claims at all about what the Egyptian people’s skin color looked like. I don’t know and never spent time looking into it, since it’s at most a trivial topic”.

If the ethnicity of Africa-Kemet is trivial to you, then why are you debating overwhelming evidence that the ethnicity of Africa-Kemet was African and not European, Arab or some melting pot.

Myself and many others like me are well aware of the history of Africa-Kemet and the lies, distortions and manipulation of data by Eurocentric and Arab scholars who have and continue to try and dismiss the contributions of Africa to world history and development.

When you reference ethnic bias remember this: It is not only simply Afrocentric scholars who help document the African origin of Africa-Kemet, it is also African, American, British, French, German, South American etc… anthropologist and scholars from diverse ethnic groups.

You need to familiarize yourself with the works of Sir Wallis Budge, Ivan Van Sertima, Cheikh Anta Diop, Theophile J. Obenga, John Henrick Clark, Asa G. Hillard, Yosef Ben-Jochannan, (Dr.Ben), Karl Heinrich Brugsch, Bruce Williams, Wayne Chandler etc etc.

What genetic analysis?–done by who, when–and on what?

Melanin is the single most important (not only) determinate of skin color.

Melanin Dosage Test

Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. Melanin is the chemical responsible for skin pigmentation and it is preserved for millions of years in the skins of fossil animals.

Diop conducted the melanin test on Egyptian mummies at the Museum of Man in Paris, and determined the levels found in the dermis and epidermis of a small sample would classify all ancient Egyptians as “unquestionably among the Black races.”

Now "races’ is a bad term. What the melanin dosage test did was prove the Egyptians were "unquestionably African–and not European or Arab.

As I stated when the results were revealed and verified in France, the Arabs in Egypt suddenly halted the testing and refused to allow Diop and his team to test anymore mummies, because the Arabs who occupy Egypt today want to portray ancient Kemet as Arab or some Arab dominated melting pot–which it was not… .

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90

Not at all. See for yourself in this easy to understand table Biblical canon - Wikipedia Christians include texts as part of their pre-Jesus canon that we do not. Lots of people have already corrected you on this.

The major issue however is you evidently know nothing about the actual legal aspects and commentary on Torah law so I’ll thank you to count the Jews out of your next screed.

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91

This will be my final comment on the topic, since we’ve been beating a dead horse for a long time now.

(Will not digress on ancient ethnic names…)

If you’re trying to say that art and art interpretation is a reliable anything, I can’t agree. Artists are selective in what and who they choose to depict and not depict, are prone to idealization that can have little to do with most people living somewhere (look at Cosmo covers, or Instagram/Pinterest), were limited in what natural pigments and resources they had available, and those natural pigments have degraded over the millennia and are no longer representative of the artist’s intent. There’s work that can be done to remedy that a little, but there’s a more serious problem - you’re looking at the heavily stylized art of Egypt that invites interpretation, and the subjectivity and biases of the subject looking at the art create a mess. It’s not totally unreliable, but it’s inherently subjective. Genetic analysis has limits, but it’s not the mess that art is and has a basis in science rather than subjective interpretation.

I’m not debating that. You seem to think I am, while I’ve made clear over and over that I don’t have an opinion on the question other than the appropriate way to investigate it, though I’ll volunteer that the ancient Egyptians weren’t European (I mentioned that once, and nobody but the utterly ignorant believe today), and it seems pretty obvious they weren’t Arabs (since the Arab expansion was much later). Since Egypt’s in Africa, people living in Egypt (including Arabs) are African, though, so what you’re saying is pretty much a tautology.

I don’t know most of those authors, though Egypt’s not my thing. I do remember way back when I was in school Egyptologists bemoaned the fact that Budge was still being printed when I was trying to read his translation of Book of the Dead and mentioned this (it was incredibly tedious and I didn’t finish it). They had very animated opinions of his translations, though I don’t know Egyptian and can’t say much. Don’t know much about the other writers, but I’m neither an Egyptologist nor very interested. At this point the ancient world’s dead to the modern world, and has been in steady decline since the British quit using the Classics in their Civil Service Exams (or really the Battle of the Books), it’s fun for movies and TV shows to hideously abuse, and gets a few days a year in Social Studies/History in primary education, but Classics and Egyptology are fading into oblivion in academia, hiring’s a nightmare, and departments are on life support. You’re fighting to right a perceived wrong virtually nobody gives a crap about and against demons long dead. Maybe modern Arab Egyptians have a dog in that fight, but they are the rare exception.

Modern western academics haven’t been up to the things you accuse them of since the old people began dying off/retiring in the 60s-70s and are on a side you’re unfamiliar with, but would probably enjoy if you were to approach them without filters since you’re mostly on the same side regarding modern cultural abuses of ancient history (with some complex qualifications).

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92

My understanding from those I’ve talked to is that Budge on Egypt is frequently a lot like Gibbon on Rome: incredibly important at the time of publication and influential on many subsequent authors, but now remarkably out of date with regards to the current state of scholarship.

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93

Since you are a Orthodox Jew, let me help get you back on point, by getting to the point.

Judaism and Orthodox Jews have one thing in common with all mythical religions, be it Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity etc.–in that all mythical religions are nothing but cultural cults with zealot and radical cult subdivisions. When these cultural cults and subordinate cult subdivisions become mainstream–they become called religions and sects or denominations.

Your disagreement is with Christianity and Judaism as far as the mythical and ridiculous versions of religious books, that allegedly are the word of one supreme creator god.

Translations, interpretations, revisions, additions, deletions etc… represent and signify (if it were the word of a supreme creator god) a schizophrenic supreme creator god suffering from dissociative (multiple personality) disorder.

Your disagreement is with mainstream Christianity and Judaism regarding your broad interpretation, recognition and acceptance of what you consider to be the religious canons of Christianity and Judaism.

You are a man so argue with the men who wrote these contradictory, redundant, nonsensical and mythical religious books. This is proof your Orthodox Jewish sect, like all religions, are fairy tales written by conflicting men.

Sites that list the Tanakh as having the same books as the Old Testament.

http://m.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/The-Bible-with-Rashi.htm

http://www.breslov.com/bible/

http://www.torah.org/learning/basics/primer/torah/12minor.html

About the Course-Tanakh
Books of the Tanakh
This site is Loosely based on Yale University’s, Introduction to the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible). There are ancillary resource referenced through links, such as those from PBS… This course examines the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) as an expression of the religious life and thought of ancient Israel, and a foundational document of Western civilization. A wide range of methodologies, including source criticism and the historical-critical school, tradition criticism, redaction criticism, and literary and canonical approaches are applied to the study and interpretation of the Bible. Special emphasis is placed on the Bible against the backdrop of its historical and cultural setting in the Ancient Near East.

http://www.religionfacts.com/tanakh

"The primary Jewish sacred text is the Tanakh, whose name is an acronym of Torah, Nebi’im and Ketuvim (Law, Prophets and Writings). The Tanakh consists of the same books as the Christian Old Testament, although in a slightly different order and with other minor differences. The Tanakh should not be referred to as the “Old Testament” in the context of Judaism, however, as the term implies acceptance of the “New Testament.”

Though the terms “Bible” and “Old Testament” are commonly used by non-Jews to describe Judaism’s scriptures, the appropriate term is “Tanach,” which is derived as an acronym from the Hebrew letters of its three components: Torah, Nevi’im and Ketuvim.

Sites that list the Christian Old Testament as having the same books as the Tanakh of Judaism

King James Bible on-line

Catholic Bible with add-on’s–however still contain the same books as the Tanakh of Judaism

Old Testament versus Tanakh

The table shows the relation between the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Old Testament. Both lists contain exactly the same set of Books. The primary difference between the two canonical structures is in the distribution of the books in the last section of the Tanakh - the Kethuviim (Writings). The gray bars show how the first 26 Books of the Tanakh were simply shifted in the Christian OT.

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94

Your understanding and the people you talked to are out of touch and wrong.

It is good practice to take the time to familiarize yourself (and if possible read some of the books) Budge authored on Egyptian religion and the Book of Coming Forth By Day (Book of the Dead).

Investigate the exhibits, manuscripts and papyri he (quite frankly stole) brought into the British Museum, that millions of people continue to view every year.

Like him or not and many hate him because of his unfettered access to African-Kemetic artifacts during his long tenure as curator at the British Museum (1894-1924), which occurred during the British colonization of Egypt.(from around 1882 until the early 1950’s).

The British Museum houses more Egyptian artifacts than any museum outside of Egypt.

Budge, even though he is dead- his work is timeless, unassailable and unbiased–historically speaking he is one of the big boys, a icon.

Encyclopedia Britannica on Budge

Sir Wallis Budge, in full Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge (born July 27, 1857, Cornwall, Eng.—died Nov. 23, 1934, London), curator (1894–1924) of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities at the British Museum, London, for which he collected vast numbers of cuneiform tablets, Egyptian papyri, and Greek, Coptic, Arabic, Syriac, and Ethiopic manuscripts. He entered the museum’s service in 1883 and subsequently made many trips to Mesopotamia, Egypt, and the Sudan to conduct archaeological excavations. He published many works, including translations of ancient texts such as the Egyptian Book of the Dead. He was knighted in 1920.
.

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95

Mirror check!

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96

Pot, meet kettle?

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97

This explains so much.

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98

Never mind. It’s impossible to hold a rational discussion with someone who is incapable of admitting that they might be wrong.

If you have a bunch of people, including one person that should, by all rights, be much more knowledgeable than you about what is and is not Jewish scripture, all saying, “Yes, you’re basically right, but the truth is much more nuanced than what you’re saying,” and your response to this is, “You’re all wrong, based on the information from these websites,” then I can come to no other conclusion other than that you are incapable of entertaining the possibility that you might, possibly, be wrong.

Therefore: thanks for showing up, but you are, in my opinion, officially no longer worth paying attention to.

I hope that you acquire the humility needed to learn.

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99

You compared ancient African-Kemetic art to a Cosmos cover or Instagram/Pinterest. I do not use social media and I am not well versed on social media, but don’t people post a whole lot of pictures of themselves on Facebook, Twitter, My Space and Instagram that is actually the way they look.

When someone 7,000 years from today looks at these pictures, they will have a good idea of what people looked like in America during the period of the United States of America in 2016…

You cannot assign your untrained subjective beliefs to the motives of the artist who drew and colored people who lived in ancient Africa-Kemet–what you are doing is biased, because you don’t know anything about the artists or the art work, which not only includes drawing and painting but statues and busts like the one I linked of Queen Tiye.

The ancient African-Kemetic artists are not from one dynastic period, but the stolen artwork covers all 31 plus dynasties over 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 etc… plus years–that is a long time, and it is consistent

You posted:

“(Will not digress on ancient ethnic names…)”

That is a good idea, because they gave themselves African names not European or Arab names–that fact is unassailable and unquestioned.

You posted referencing the artist of ancient Africa Kemet;

“were limited in what natural pigments and resources they had available, and those natural pigments have degraded over the millennia and are no longer representative of the artist’s intent.”

I will not digress on you over this comment–I will tell you that the African-Kemetic artists had every coloring resource available to them to draw the varied colors of Africans. In fact they depicted the skin color of the people of Africa-Kemet in black, dark brown, brown, light brown, reddish brown, yellow etc…–in other words the same basic skin colors you see among African-Americans and specifically Africans on the continent of Africa today.

The people I cited are not just “authors”, they represent “just some” of the icons on African-Kemetic history, religion and culture. They were/are curators, anthropologists, chemists, physicist’s, experts on language, tenured professors and directors of African-Study programs in major Americas colleges etc…

There is no one alive today who compares to them. Manuscripts, papyri, Mdw-Ntr (hieroglyphics), paintings, statues, names etc… do not change over time, once the meaning is deciphered it becomes timeless.

Absence of documented fraud by preceding generations, the older a source is in history–the more reliable and accurate it is. Many of the founding fathers of America were Masons–and Masons are well versed in African-Kemetic religious mythology, culture and history. Many in Rome and Greece were infatuated with African-Kemetic religious mythology, culture and history–this had an impact on there societies and ours in America–something that is left out of the history books for obvious biased reasons.

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100

Name three, with citations re: the well versedness of 17th century colonial Anglo American masons in A-K “religious mythology, culture and history”.

many… is not a strong word.

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