Yes, clearly it is the fault of the propagana of Bernie supporters that people (it seems) didn’t like Clinton and didn’t vote for her.
I’ve never liked her. I still held my nose and voted for her, against my own stated intent and principles. Please don’t peddle this circular firing squad BS. The Democrats could have put anyone up. They chose to back her (sometimes even illegally, as it turns out) and they got what they got.
I think it’s important to keep hammering on this fact: Trump was humiliated and it didn’t matter. He won.
Maybe what they needed was someone who could inspire people to vote for them.
No telling for sure, but judging by the passion for Sanders in the Primary and even now, he may have been that candidate.
Corbyn is a world away from Sanders. If Sanders got everything he wanted with his plan, we would still be economically to the right of where Britain is right now, much less what Corbyn wants.
Like I said, in my state Sanders wasn’t all that popular. At least in the primary. People here care more about illegal immigration and other conservative issues. Anything that will cost a lot of money they don’t want. Except a wall along the border.
Amateur. I remember when we funded someone to open a MacDonalds franchise in our town purely so that we could boycott it.
To be fair not much violence even there is an amount of anger.
Harris got my vote. I luvs her.
I wish I could think that the Democratic party establishment would learn something from this, but I’m not optimistic. If they were the kind of people who were capable of figuring it out, or putting the interest of the country over their corrupt grubbing for money and power, they would have done so already.
No, its not hate. Its either hope or fear. Either you have hope that your candidate and the movement they are creating will make your life better or it is fear that the other candidate and their movement will make it worse.
I didn’t vote for Trump out of fear of the candidate. But I also didn’t vote for Hillary out of fear over the reaction of her supporters. That wouldn’t have changed if it was Sanders. I voted for a third party out of HOPE there was a way to get out of this 2 party mess.
Yeah…there it is. Take one word out of an entire idea and use it to shame the other into a position of submission. If I had used “demonstrations” instead of “riot”, would that have been better?
You’ve made some good points but instead of trying to “win” the argument, engage in the sharing of ideas and try to understand the other viewpoints. You may find an idea you like or at least have a better chance of convincing the other you are correct.
Sure, I think voting for the future is what most people do - and probably what the Trump folks did, too.
I’m not here to purity-police. I’m only asserting that every person out there protesting is a human being worthy of respect. If you agree, then let’s also agree not to call those actions “riots.” If you disagree, then I’m not really interest in a conversation. That’s all.
If you don’t understand why I’m making that request, then let’s get you educated before you decide if you agree or not.
It’s kind of strange to point to polls as evidence of who we should have nominated, when the polls were strongly favorable to Clinton against Trump too, in fact during the period of the graph above Clinton’s numbers are pretty similar to Bernie’s versus Trump.
If Hillary had won then this would all be moot, but it’s kind of moot already since she appears to have gotten a lot more of the popular vote than Trump, and in the toss-up states she seems to have lost by roughly the margin of error. We can wring our hands and say “Bernie woulda done better” but we don’t know that for sure.
Do we blame the pundits for telling us who to vote for, or do we blame ourselves for believing the pundits?
Fixed that for you.
Sorry, my comrade. Do your research. A lot of Obama voters voted for Herr Trump. In 2012, they were following marching orders from their local union, or were turned off by the plutocrat Romney, or various other reasons. But when Hillary was nominated, they had their fill.
I mentioned in the next sentence the non-voters, who also had their fill, but couldn’t stomach voting for either character. So, Trump won there, too.
We need to fix ourselves. And engage the “Rust Belt” and all other places the Democrats have neglected. Snarkiness got us into this mess. Snarkiness won’t get us out.
I’m not sniping at you. There is hope, comrade. Michael Moore is pointing the way, on this very website, indeed.
Something something doors and asses…
One of the big reasons Trump got as much support as he did was that he spoke to middle America. He told them he was going to bring the jobs back. It didn’t matter that it was bullshit- People believed him because they HAD to.
Clinton did fuck-all about this. She handed those voters to Trump.
Sanders would have appealed to those same people. Yes, they probably would have had an issue with him being a Jewish socialist- But the exact moment he would have crushed Trump? Every time he said he was going to bring the jobs back. Sanders could have hammered him on “how? How exactly do you intend to do that? Because here’s my plan–” Listen to what they actually say about Trump- All they care about is that they think someone listened to them. Do that and have an actual plan to help them, and it’s in the bag.
He was the one candidate really and truly prepared to turn the enemy’s biggest strength into their biggest weakness.
A couple of days ago I was walking my dog and chatted with the neighbor ( an elderly white, retired, mechanical engineer) about the the fact that he had taken his Hillary sign down. He said that as he was taking it down, a tree guy (also white) who was part of a crew cutting branches over power lines said to him, “you know you lost cause you let blacks, women and illegals choose your candidate”. Disappointing to hear similar sentiments from the left.
And what was Sanders’ plan? If it was any good Trump would have stolen it, claimed it was his idea, and they would have went with Trump anyway. It’s a cult of personality they were voting for.
Got any numbers on that?
The question of “did Obama voters switch to Trump, or did Obama voters stay home while other people voted Trump?” strikes me as very important. So far I haven’t been able to find any data that directly addresses it.
A lot of this hand-wringing is pointless. The only way to really get the Democratic party to change is to be involved in party politics and devote most of your time to the party. Most of us don’t have the time or desire to do that.
I live in a very blue state. I voted for Bernie but Hillary still won the state. I don’t fault those Hillary voters, they have their reasons for wanting her as President even if I disagree. The fact is we can blame everyone: the DNC, Hillary, people who voted for her in the primaries, the media, pollsters, Trump voters, the GOP, even ourselves.
America still has a lot of growing-up to do. This will be a lesson for all of us, including those who voted for Trump.
