HEY! No recursion!
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The only really vehement Trump supporter Iāve met was a small businessman who is being driven out of business by other small businessmen who are willing to employ undocumented Mexican laborers and pay them far less than minimum wage. Which is very common around here; the rich people patronize agencies that supply Mexican maids, cooks, housecleaners, and lawn servicemen at very good prices, and the rich folks pretend they donāt know somebodyās being exploited. Lawn services that follow the law are being crushed, and while they donāt necessarily blame the Mexicans themselves (most of them know that itās the rich folksā fault) they see the Donald as providing an answer to their problems.
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I can understand the anger when you do the right thing and you get screwed over - I can imagine itās demoralizing. I just donāt get why they think that Trump is the solution to that problem? Is it because heās promised to build a wall? Do they think what heās proposing is actually a working solution? Or do they see it as promising rhetoric that is addressing their specific concerns, do you think?
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I canāt speak for @Medievalist; but I imagine that they donāt even have to believe that his plan is 100% sensible or likely to actually be executed as described in order to prefer him to the alternatives.
If you just really hate brown people jabbering in their foreign tongues, youāve got options; but if you actually want a labor market that(either by keeping more immigrants out, or by fast-tracking the ones that do come to slightly less exploitable legal status, or a combination) is less distorted by a low-cost underclass you have markedly fewer options.
Itās another area where getting some culture war fluff is easy(proposals to make English Our One Official Language!, etc.); but a candidate who suggests something that would make labor more expensive? Thatās less easy to come by.
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[quote=āanon50609448, post:46, topic:74075ā]
Trumpās overt Nazi-esque policies against Muslims are terrifying, but the apparent Republican establishment position that women are elaborate incubators rather than people might be almost as terrifying.
[\quote]
Almost?
I think Trump would be the clear choice out of those three. Iām not saying heād be a good president or that heās terribly sane, but the only time I ever heard anyone saying anything reasonably sensible in any of the Republican debates, it was Trump. He, of course, said heaps of insane things as well, but I think it speaks to the Republican choice of candidates that Trump is the only one of those who ever says anything remotely reasonable.
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Also worth noting that as Republican pundits come out and say theyāll never vote for Trump, itās always because they donāt think heās conservative enough, not because heās a crazy sexist racist narcissist.
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Yeah, I donāt get it either. The man was an honest, hardworking guy in his early 50s or late 40s, who was being economically mashed by scofflaws and opportunists, and heād managed to convince himself that his best bet was backing the most openly racist candidate - not for hate reasons, but for paycheck reasons. It was weird and difficult to engage; I only had about a half an hour to talk to him while we unloaded his truck. I tried to tell him how Trump treated the small businessmen heād interacted with while building his hotels and casinos, and encouraged him to check that out on his own, but sadly I donāt really think I made much impression on him.
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Well sure. Declare one of them unworthy because of offensive or crazy claims and policies, and youād have to do the same for all of them. That includes Jeb!.
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Hereās a scenario I can see occurring very easily:
- Trump declares his candidacy, immediately says crazy racist ultra-right-wing stuff.
- The other candidates ramp up their craziness. Trump follows suit. Ad nauseum.
- With Cruz & Rubio trying to out-crazy each other, Trump dials it back, sounds reasonable, seems like āthe one who isnāt actually a maniacā. Gets the nomination.
- Nomination secure, Trump reverts to some of his old, Democrat-ish positions on health care, Planned Parenthood, etc, and paints himself as āthe reasonable oneā versus Hillary or Bernie.
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Thatās an interesting, and disturbing, thought experiment. I suppose, if somebody held a gun to my headā¦ Iād let them shoot me.
Just kidding. I think I would flip a coin, because thereās no right answer here. Now, as to who Iād want against Clinton. Thatās easy: Trump. I firmly believe she would crush him in the general. But, alas, the Republican nominee is just as likely to be Rubio. (Cruz doesnāt have much of a chance anymore, in my opinion.)
Any thoughts on what would happen at a contested convention? I think Paul Ryan probably has a shot at this. Is that just too crazy? Would Trumpās famed deal-making ability help him? The current chatter is that Kasich is staying in just to be a power broker in this kind of scenario.
These kinds of arguments always make me a little uncomfortable. I think you could make the argument that Clinton is a safer vote than Sanders because Sanders would energize the Republican base to a far greater degree than Clinton would. Clinton would win against Trump. Sanders, Iām not so sure.
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one of the two men who may still have a good chance of becoming the Republican nominee is a scary character. His notions on foreign policy seem to boil down to the belief that America can bully everyone into doing its bidding, and that engaging in diplomacy is a sign of weakness. His ideas on domestic policy are deeply ignorant and irresponsible, and would be disastrous if put into effect.
The other man, of course, has very peculiar hair.
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Japan has a long and proud tradition of refusing to apologize for the systematically organized industrial-scale rape of kidnapped Korean women.
Itās heartbreaking.
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Itās hilarious when religious, low-information right-wing (who go for Cruz, obviously) scream at the mainstream low-information right-wing (who are going for Trump): āWhat are you doing?ā
Both want to drive off a cliff, but they are fixated on which person is going to get to do it.
Please donāt mock this, by the way.
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I suspect Sanders would crush Trump even more than Clinton would. It would be a highly unusual race, with lots of weird ideological crossover happening that is hard to predict. But I think it would help Democrats to put an insurgent up against another insurgent. This is the mood of the electorate.
However, if Rubio is the nominee, we would probably see the usual process where more radical partisans eventually fall in line, so Clinton would be the stronger opponent. The counter-argument is that there are no true independents left, and Sanders would do a better job of driving turnout. High turnout always helps Democrats, since Republicans tend to be pretty reliable at turning out in any case. However, Iām not sure I buy this argument. I have a feeling that, if Rubio is nominated, his general election pivot will make even Mitt Romney look steady and principled by comparison.
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Dunno if itās an improvement:
In the 2012 election the Republican Partyās message to the country reminded me of a tired old billionaire telling his chauffer, āDrive off that cliff, James. Iām feeling depressed.ā
In 2016 theyāre MUCH more energetic and enthusiastic!
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Will that be the case this year, though? Lots of people seem to be saying theyāll only vote for Trump, or theyāll never vote for Trump.
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I though that was how Tony Blair ended up joining the Labour Party.
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Itās an election in which the three wings of the GOP are on unusually clear display. Cruz has the theocrats, Trump has the racists, Rubio has the plutocrats (AKA the crazy, stupid and evil factions, respectively).
Now itās just a matter of seeing which candidate can unite the required two-thirds.
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Thatās a good question. If Trump gets the nomination, perhaps the two types will cancel each other out (since the āonly Trumpā people are likely to be nonvoters anyway, in a normal election).
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