No, The Lord reversed it. Remember, they are Latter Day Saints and have a direct connection to Heavenly Father. It’s God’s ruling, not a human one.
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They can claim that all they want, but I’ve been sitting here not getting struck by lightning an awful long time.
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It’s much easier to make fun of with modern-day historical record to a religious figure being a con artist, like Smith and Hubbard.
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I’m just gonna post this here for anyone who wants the straight dope on LDS doctrinal and historical nonsense. It does cover details about this stone, and the Church’s portrayal of it over the decades.
It’s well written, it covers almost any crazy point about Mormonism you’d like, and it’s primarily sourced. And it’s famous for putting Mormons on the edge right over.
A Mormon man was promised by (an older) relative that his questions would be conveyed to this older man’s friend, then-president of CES, or the Church Educational System. The idea was that the guy knew the CES president and could get CES Pres to answer his family member’s concerns. This is that letter. It’s mostly respectful in tone, but it is by no means faith building. I do not believe an answer to the letter is forthcoming.
EDIT: Bah. My intro text will never be good enough. Better repent.
EDIT2: My kingdom for a period.
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I thought momons got whole planets…
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There are credible rumors that Spencer W. Kimball, the President of the Church in 1978 when the Declaration was made, tried and failed to get the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve to change the policy on several occasions before 1978.
The Presidency/Quorum (fifteen of them total) have a policy that all decisions should be unanimous, since they’re all talking to God.
Kimball couldn’t get that unanimous vote, and tried especially hard under Harold B. Lee. Ultimately he had to wait until he had the presidency to make the change.
Which speaks to who’s really running the church, no? Seems like if it were an unchanging supernatural force, the policies would be unchanging as well. And, I dunno, right in the first place?
EDIT: Why can’t I do without edits? Talking, not taking.
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No, they have to claim that, because then they blame the racism on God and don’t have to apologize.
Because obviously it’s a racist policy. And obviously, had they been in charge of the church, they would have seen fit to reverse it.
But, God told them to do it, and therefore, they had no choice. Awful shady to pin behavior on someone who can’t defend themselves.
Also see: Massacre, Meadows; marriage, poly; and reporters, female, General conference
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Jebus I love this thread.
The Mountain Meadows Massacre is indeed scandalous, despite the Church’s insistence that Brigham Young knew nothing of it at the time.
Also scandalous, other than the fact that there were at least forty of them, was Smith’s marriage to Marinda Hyde, Orson Hyde’s wife, secretly, after Joseph sent Hyde on a mission to Isreal.
Orson was an apostle. Joseph lied and lied and lied.
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I got 1 minute in and lost the ability to hold back the stupid.
Lots of people say they miss being a kid, because the world seemed fun then.
I say I miss being a kid because at least when I was a kid, I didn’t fully realize the true depth of
the very real stupidity of grown people. They seemed smart to me.
I wish I was an ignorant child again. In my wildest dreams as a child, I never came up with anything
this deliberately crazy.
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I do believe this to be the first instance of blaming everything on “a rogue faction.”
Actually, I had trouble finding out when the LDS finally admitted publicly they might have had something to do with it, maybe. Was it as late as the '90’s?
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Hm, me too. Seems like it was the mid 1990s, which would have been just before my mission.
Here’s from the MMM wiki link above:
“Initially, the LDS Church denied any involvement by Mormons, and was relatively silent on the issue. In 1872, it excommunicated some of the participants for their role in the massacre.[42] Since then, the LDS Church has condemned the massacre and acknowledged involvement by local Mormon leaders. In September 2007, the LDS Church published an article in its publications marking 150 years since the tragedy occurred.”
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I caught that too, including
“Starting in 1988, the Mountain Meadows Association, composed of descendants of both the Baker–Fancher party victims and the Mormon participants, designed a new monument in the meadows; this monument was completed in 1990 and is maintained by the Utah State Division of Parks and Recreation.[77] In 1999 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints replaced the U.S. Army’s cairn and the 1932 memorial wall with a second monument, which it now maintains.”
But that seems so long to keep up the pretense the Native Americans did it.
The trick to enjoying being an adult is recognising that crazy stupid often leads to crazy genius.
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Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Mormon Rap, ca. 1988.
It was very popular in Northern Utah when it was released.
“My bishop asked if we’re going steady. I said “No sir, 'cause we’re not ready! We got some important things to do, like graduate from BYU. And sometime later on in the Fall, I’m gonna receive my mission call!””
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In conversation with a friend, I realize that I may have confused Kimball here with David O. McKay. I believe he was actually most vocal about making the change.
I regret the error.
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What’s to regret? You fixed it.
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Oh my gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahd, this is some incredible shite.
Also, your posts have been amazing. Reading a bit into that letter you posted I ended up at the story of the lawyer who presented archaeological information which essentially damned Mormon historiography as explicit fiction. It was remarkable that he stayed affiliated despite how clearly skeeved out he was by the nature of Smith and even by the willingness of his contemporaries to deny the patent fabrications.
To paraphrase the rap: flipp’n fiddledy-dee.
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What other channels does it get?
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I fart in your general direction!
Somehow, I was expecting it to have googly eyes and a toothy little smile painted on.
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