That’s very true, that fact has come out, and in my very first comment, I addressed the fact that I’m glad this case has exposed the trafficking going on at these massage parlors. By no means am I cheering on women being held against their will. But there’s big difference between that and saying, in a general sense, that I don’t care about an old guy paying $20 for a handjob.
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I’m sorry about that. I had incorrectly assumed you had actually read the article we are discussing. That was my mistake. I’ll bring you up to speed.
This arrest was part of a lenghty human trafficking investigation. The state’s attorney Dave Aronberg said :
This is not about lonely old men or victimless crimes. This is about enabling a network of criminals to traffic women into our country for forced labor and sex… These cases aren’t about any one defendant or any group of defendants. Many prostitutes are themselves victims, often lured into this country with promise of better life, only to be forced to work in a brothel performing sex acts for strangers.
There are also charges against spa owners and clients include human trafficking, racketeering, and money laundering.
So, there you go. Now that you know the nature of this case and the connection with human trafficking, you should be able to better respond to people who are confused as to why you seemed to be defending slavery and can adjust your stance…
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I did.
I’m sorry that you did not read my other responses (including my first one on this thread) specifically addressing the human trafficking.
Again, I’m not talking about slaves.
I’m talking about an old guy getting a hand job.
You are, again, inferring that I am supporting slavery. That is unacceptable.
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Let’s call it consensual on both sides.
As others have already pointed out, these massage parlors are quite often populated by sex slaves and not free women. I know that, Kraft knows that, and I was thinking maybe you would come to understand that.
One cannot believably argue that they didn’t know their cocaine came from violent drug cartels any more than one could believably argue that they didn’t know about the human trafficking going on in these kinds of places - especially when one donates their money to put a stop to it.
I inferred that you had seemed to support it but gave you the out that perhaps you were unaware of the details of this story.
Form sex slaves… in a place where he should be expected to understand that fact.
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How long do you suggest we give a pass to people that claim they didnt know anything about trafficking?
His foundation has donated money to the cause.
A former president and a secretary of state has been accused of trafficking.
The current president used to party with a now known trafficker.
He is close friends with the current president who has signed an executive order to stop trafficking, and who has a daughter that publically discusses stopping trafficking.
The super bowl has been accused of being a big trafficking money maker.
These massage parlors are continually in the news for raids and trafficking.
Poor ignorant Bob Kraft just wandered into the wrong place… what a load of crap.
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Fair enough, and I’d be willing to downgrade that to “sufficeint evidence for internet recognition of additional irony”
I’d disagree that that is in any way “both ways.” I don’t feel much cognitive dissonance holding “this heinously wealthy guy was blithely accessing exploited laborers, and in so doing supporting an exploitative business” with “All sex workers deserve respect and legal protection” in my head at the same time.
But then, my personal burden of evidence only needs to rise to the standard of “Is this internet comment worthy?” I’m not asking for Kraft in cuffs.
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There’s the important phrase. “Quite often”. You are assuming that every single woman who works at a massage parlor and offers ‘extra services’ is literally being sold into slavery and a victim of human trafficking. That’s kind of a bonkers conspiracy theory (sort of like assuming that every single guy selling pot on the street for extra cash is a drug mule or a member of a Colombian cartel), it’s not true, and does not change the fact that this was just an old man getting a hand job. Turns out that in this case, it was a ring of three co-owned massage parlors dealing in human trafficking, and I’m glad that a stupid, boring case of an old man getting a hand job exposed it.
How thoughtful!
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You’re connecting a shit ton of threads on that. I’ll wait for additional known info.
Enjoy your conspiracy theories and straw man arguments. Leave me out it and do not engage with me again here.
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Agreed on the majority of it. I guess in having listened to Kraft on the radio and in interviews here so damn much it is abundantly clear this isn’t an in the know wink wink nod nod guy.
Jerry Jones consistently has a young “assistant” at his side at games and events and functions. It is absolutely known they are there to take DICKtation and only assist him with one thing. Kraft has never been that kind of guy in fact a few years after Martha Kraft passed he ended up being connected to a young model/actress and it led to such embarrassment for him he then was only ever seen alone after that at any events and such.
This doesn’t strike me as the Illuminati “he knows all” Bs.
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It’s the informed position. When you know that activity X quite often involves crime Y as well as crime Z, one should avoid activity X or be caught up participating and in crimes Y and Z.
Yes yes, an old man getting a hand job. Poor uninformed simple man who had no idea that he was engaging in criminal activity at a place which fits the nationally recognized description of the average human trafficking location. I’m not buying that apologist view for a second.
Kraft with his billions is likely to…ahem…beat the charge.
After all, I’m sure he only went in there to … clear his head … before the big game.
What bothers in part here is the fact that Kraft who clearly has the means, and likely has the connections to patronize the sex trade in a venue and at a level where trafficking and abuse are less likely didn’t.
Men who are abusive to sex workers often end up seeking out these sketchier venues. Either because they’ve been black listed from more “respectable” venues or by independent sex workers. Or because it’s where more vulnerable, easier to victimize sex workers or people are to be found. It’s a bit akin to the less dead concept. Predators seek out these sorts of situations.
Though from the coverage I’ve seen of the whole Backpage shut down, and new laws that have passed. There really aren’t many venues for sex workers to advertise at the moment, and even independent sex workers and those from the less fucked up ends of this business are starting to get pressed back to street prostitution, pimps, and massage parlors.
So I suppose it’s possible this guy’s “why” has more to do with that and less to do with predatory behavior.
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It’s very simple.
If a client doesn’t know if the worker is trafficked or not, then the client should leave.
If the client has no idea what trafficking is, then by all means buy all the bridges, you deserve them.
He had to go there because the NFL has banned hormones!
Ah, so now I’m not only an actual supporter of slavery, but a human-trafficking apologist.
If your viewpoint going into this is that every single masseuse working in every single massage parlor is potentially an actual slave, then our entire worldviews are vastly divergent.
To be clear: no, I don’t think Kraft was innocent or ignorant. Yes, I think he knew a place to get cheap hand-jobs, and most likely (given the fact that he’s a rich old Trumpist creep) knew about this place’s reputation. But the crime here is the sex trafficking that was uncovered. The focus on “the owner of the Pats used a prostitute! Gasp!” in the news is weird puritanical pearl-clutching.
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A reasonable person understands that “every single” situations are vanishingly rare. Reasonable people also don’t deal in absolutist terms. That’s why your painting of my position as “every single” rings a bit hollow and, I don’t know… desperate maybe? What I have been saying all along is that a man of his age, education, and social position should be aware that these massage parlors are not where independent and free prostitutes tend to work. To pretend otherwise is the position of the apologist. To pretend that popular media, television, movies, radio, etc hasn’t pointed out what happens at these parlors, where the women come from or indeed the conditions under which they work strains all believability.
And that’s my problem with your position. You hand wave this event away as no big deal. “the owner of the Pats used a prostitute! Gasp!" isn’t what happened at all. He paid the handlers of sex slaves to use a trafficked human being for his own gratification. If you think outrage over human trafficking and those who patronize slavers so they can get a little sexual satisfaction is weird puritanical pearl-clutching, then yes. We have vastly divergent world views. It’s my view that decent people don’t defend criminals and participants in slavery.
That is the reality, yes. I’m terribly sorry that you’ve somehow misinterpreted my criticism of the coverage of this event as – as you’ve said repeatedly, now – actual support of slavery and, now, saying that I’m not a decent human being.
Again, to be clear: this is a big story. It’s uncovered a sex-trafficking ring. That should be the focus here, that multiple massage parlors were involved in human trafficking. But, somehow, that’s being lost in the media’s weird focus on “the owner of the Patriots got a happy ending, har har har”, which is what I think is ridiculous.
I also think it’s quite ridiculous to accuse people on the BBS of not only supporting sex slavery and human trafficking but also of being indecent human beings for thinking the media’s doing a lousy job of reporting the bigger story here. So, stop doing that.
Tried finding any article or essay from actual Chinese migrant sex workers (these particular ones or ANY ones ever) to talk about things from their perspective. Could not find anything online anywhere. Found lots of quotes from people who are not Chinese (or even any Asian nationality) saying things, but none of the actual people whose interests and rights are at issue here. Would like to have people whose human rights are at issue have their voices amplified.
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