It is a well-documented fact that many top Republican officials are refusing to take steps to fully investigate foreign interference in the 2016 election, let alone enact adequate measures to protect current or future elections from being interfered with in the same way. (See Devin Nunes as just one example.)
Frankly it’s pretty insulting for you to dismiss the claim “Republicans are complicit in Russian interference” with some completely unfounded and unsupported Truther conspiracy theory.
One might hope that any serious congressional investigation of trumprussia by the democrats, if they, god willing retake at least one of the houses, would actually drift into a larger push for campaign finance reform/public financing. The NRA-Russia connection could be rather useful.
My fear, though, is that the 2018 elections will be “statistically unreliable.” That would be even worse than the nitwits on the Supreme Court deciding that corporate money is just fine-- which they’ll probably do because H Clinton never even got the chance to appoint someone decent to the Supreme Court.
And that’s why so many of us have no patience with “Russian skepticism” – because all too often it’s just an euphemism for Russian denialism.
Tell that to the Ukrainians, or the people in the Baltic states.
Fair enough. You wouldn’t be the first Useful Idiot in history or on this site to twist himself into a pretzel of denialism using whataboutism, strawmanning, irrelevant links, and insincertity – all of which have been in evidence in this thread on your part. That’s what annoys people here.
Then you were insincere in the context of this thread, you said:
Because the majority of the community in this thread is, in your opinion, being played (alongside Adam Curtis). There’s no point in continuing this discussion with you when your thinking is so muddled or disingenuous
In just over a year Mueller’s investigation has already amassed dozens of indictments and several guilty pleas, some of which are pointing pretty unambiguously at Trump campaign complicity in Russian interference in the election. There is plenty of there there.
I would personally like to see Trump go down on the basis of his being an execrable human being with monsters for his inner circle, but as true as we all know that is it seems to be easier to prove the Russia thing, or at least it seems to be true that complicity with Russia on US campaigns is punishable in a way that exacerbating human climate catastrophe, that destroying public institutions, that kidnapping children and putting them in cages, that using his office to spit on basic human decency, is not.
Well, not to the US. The Ukraine is, at the very least, a different continent.
Ad hominem. When you run out of arguments?
You seem to have a pattern of falling back to vehement statements while dodging the actual contents of my arguments. That does indeed make it difficult to continue the conversation.
But no, I completely believe Curtis’ description of Surkov’s role in post-reality Russian politics. That (Russia’s status as a ruthless autharchy) is not really the issue here.
It’s clear you don’t understand geopolitics (e.g. the structure and role of NATO and how it might thwart Russian expansionist ambitions)
It’s a description of a kind of behaviour:
Well - I personally think that Trump should go to prison for the rest of his life for the border family separations and cages. For crimes against humanity.
However, I also think that about George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld and others for Guantánamo and Iraq, and nothing has come of that so far - not a single prosecution. Well, maybe next year.
This exchange of opinions with you specifically has come to a junction where it’s difficult to see a constructive way out. I’m sorry for my part in that. I’ll not be engaging (further) in a namecalling contest. (And, once again, I apologize for my part in taking it to that extreme.)
I don’t have anything to add except to repeat my suggestion that people see the Chomsky interview:
Happy hacking!
Carsten
I find dealing with it in print makes it easy to analyze.
Hmm. Let’s see:
Regarding the neo-McCarthyist aspect:
Some weird movement.
“County election boards should not be expected to stand alone against a hostile foreign government,” the lawmakers wrote in recommending “a wide range of services” from the Department of Homeland Security.
“We were requested by the chairman and vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee to let the supervisors of election in Florida know that the Russians are in their records,” Nelson told the Times on Wednesday. (audio below) He noted he is a member of the Armed Services subcommittee on cybersecurity.
“The Florida Department of State has received zero information from Senator Nelson or his staff that support his claims,” agency spokeswoman Sarah Revell said in a statement. "Additionally, the Department has received no information from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the Federal Bureau of Investigation or the Florida Department of Law Enforcement that corroborates Senator Nelson’s statement and we have no evidence to support these claims.
Bill Nelson (D) at least has a technical background. (Shuttle payload specialist.)
Chairman of the Intelligence Committee, smiling twisty turd, Richard Burr (R)
Vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee, Mark Warner (D). I don’t see any strikes against him.
It’s not unimaginable that there are major problems in the Florida voting system (no way!), but doing things this way seems designed to cause as much pre-election FUD as possible. I could see the Republicans wanting to do a setup for casting the November results as compromised, but I can’t see the Democrats playing along with that.
No doubt they’ll eventually let the Florida Department of State and the rest of us know what’s going on.
Seems to me that if the Russians are going to compromise the voter registration database that back ups would be used for voting day. What am I missing?
Oh wait, of course, the Republicans would supply theirs to save the day.
All the Russians would have to do is cause as much doubt as possible in a hotly contested election.
Like the urban legend of checking your vacation photos and finding strangers holding your toothbrush and their pants down, it doesn’t really matter if they actually did anything, you’re going to want a new toothbrush.
If only USians in general would want a new election system.
I may have some things to say here, but I’m a bit incommunicado at the moment. Keeping the thread live just in case.
You need bail money? 
Hospitals, regrettably.
Oh shit. I’m sorry (and sad and worried) to hear that. Get well soon, we’ve been missing you!
