So? I said that I don’t care what people call “these kinds of movies”. Presumably you think there’s a trend yourself or you wouldn’t be lumping them together as a certain kind. I made three comments at the start of the topic, and then replied to two other posters before you started jumping on my case about GITS not being essentially Japanese.
You seem to have missed my point, which I was quite explicit about. I said that I thought complaints about the casting were irrelevant. I’d say that this production is most likely an instance of cultural appropriation, which I think connotes something specific. And no, “culture” in this case need not refer exclusively to country of origin. It can also refer to subculture - such as comics, otaku, and cyberpunk. And lack of cultural appropriation is certainly not a guarantee of quality - Shirow himself could make a terrible GITS movie and have only himself to blame. Many GITS fans don’t even like his later GITS manga, although I do.
If my angles seem shifty, perhaps it’s because you are trying to make them fit your own narrative. You state a lot of negatives, but haven’t answered any of the questions which might provide more clarity regarding your opinions. I surmised your position with an “if” due to lack of clarity or detail. This is a conditional statement, rather than a “straw man argument”. It’s just that you seemed so emphatic that I assumed you had more to say on the matter. My apologies.
I’m merely attesting to the fact that James Bond is a real character created by a real guy and modeled by the way after somebody named James Bond, if you must know the truth is a friend of Ian Fleming
I wanted the simplest, dullest, plainest-sounding name I could find, ‘James Bond’ was much better than something more interesting, like ‘Peregrine Carruthers’
I’m seeing several defenses about how it doesn’t matter that ScarJo was cast for this movie, because Motoko always looked “Caucasian”, but frankly, I’m hearing weeabos not getting it.
Considering the fact that yes, maybe the shell that Motoko was in was shaped and looked white, but that in itself means nothing because but for nothing is so much money spent by East Asians to look as “white” as possible. The fact that Motoko looks that way? That has nuance I sincerely doubt Scarlett Johansson, a white woman of Nordic ancestry who has likely never had to deal with 1) not growing up conforming to a beauty ideal and 2) has to deal with the double-consciousness of looking like that ideal and yet knowing that the beauty is fraudulent, would be able to carry. She’s not a terrible actor, but no way she’s that good.
There really are two ways this movie will go: either it will strip-mine everything about the Ghost in the Shell franchise, remove the geopolitical and cultural context to not “confuse and alienate” the audience, and essentially turn it into another Dragonball Evolution at worst. The alternative is to change Motoko herself but keep the milieu, maybe with some bullshit storytelling about how she’s some transfer cop from America or something, and we’ve basically got another flick full of Scarlett Johansson going all Jack Bauer on Deserving And Totally Villainous-Looking Not-White People. Or maybe they’ll make her go yellowface, and then make her try and speak Japanese while she’s shoving some dude’s face through a wall! What larks it will be.
What the hell is your point? I can’t disagree with you without being a troll? Try to communicate with your own words instead of harping on at people when they can’t guess what you mean. Otherwise, FFS - drop it.
My point is pokey thing on the end. It’s where the edges come together.
You can’t say you disagree with me and then in your next post say you don’t care, follow up with straw man framing of ‘opinions’ of mine you pull from thin air, and finally ignore my replies to your assertion by saying I need to communicate with my own words and expect me to take anything you post seriously. It’s your trolling that makes you a troll and not your opinion.
Maybe your memory is too short to remember the different factors I have replied to. I said I don’t care about whatever “white washing” may be - which you stated is your primary concern. But, you also volunteered that you consider GITS to not be essentially Japanese, and specifically derivative of PK Dick - this is what I explained that I disagree with you about. I hope that’s clear.
As for the “straw man” you keep referring to - as I understand the phrase, it refers to an argument with poor substantiation which can’t withstand close scrutiny. But this would seen to imply that I am actually posing any sort of argument, to convince you of anything, Which am not. So you think GITS is like PKD, and I don’t? Who cares? Your argument about why it doesn’t matter where GITS comes from or who makes it hinges upon your claims of it’s intrinsically un-Japanese character. But just because I disagree with this appraisal need not imply that I care what you make of it. I can have distinct opinions of different things you say without needing to support or refute whatever your thesis may be.
And no, I am not concerned about whether you take anything I post seriously.
Honestly, this bothers me less if it’s a complete remake/reimagining than if it’s supposed to be a straight adaptation. I know that sounds ass-backwards, but if it’s a story set in Japan with all the same character names and plot points, yet suddenly everyone of importance is white, that ticks me off way more because it’s like outright saying, “there’s only one thing that doesn’t work about this… non-white people can’t/shouldn’t carry a movie”, whereas remaking it wholesale for an American audience is saying more, “This story is good, and it’s been done well one way, but we’re going to do it another way and translating the story to a different milieu”. Like when they do a movie that’s just a Shakespearean story but set in a high school to me is cool… telling the story of Exodus and having whites play all the major roles, not.
I guess I never got on board with the idea that remaking another culture’s stories was, itself, a bad thing, I love stories being shared and adapted in different ways (I even enjoy remakes, at least theoretically, it’s just a tough job because you have to improve on it and that rarely happens)… as long as you honor the original: don’t hide it what you’re doing and point people to the original sources enthusiastically. And, in the case of US adaptations, you’re a diverse country, your movie had better reflect that and not just have everyone white.
I never said GITS was specifically derivative of anything other than early American sci-fi. I said PKD seems to be the origin of most of the elements (plot wise). I also said that the plot elements are based on early american sci-fi - specifically the cyberpunk genre. Last I checked, Gibson was not Japanese.
I do not address your cultural appropriation argument simply because it has nothing to do with my post or follow ups. That’s another discussion and despite your seeming need to have me address your position, I really don’t care to do so. Why would I?
Your (mis)understanding of straw man arguments is clear enough. You present what you think are my opinions, statements which I did not make, and them proceed to argue your own misrepresentation of my view. That is the classic straw man fallacy and why I stopped replying to you as if you were a rational person.
There is a world of difference between me stating in certain terms what your opinions are, and saying that I am guessing what they may be. There are little words which indicate that something may conditionally be true. Such as when I said “presumably” and “if/then” and “you appear to”. If you read those as me making specific statements on your behalf, then you did not read closely. How am I “irrational” to guess what you mean when you decline to say? I said it was my guess, so as far as I am concerned you don’t have anything to be indignant about.
If I have a serious shortcoming online, it is that I do not like to feel that I am misunderstood. So when it is apparent to me that I am misunderstood, I prefer to clarify my position - for the benefit of myself and others. Sometimes it doesn’t work! Oh well.
Both the original and Innocence took place in the fictitious Newport City, which is modeled heavily after Hong Kong often with Chinese signs, but canonically located on the north end of Osaka Bay, in Japan. Innocence is also has a second city, which is located to the north, Bertarve in the Etorofu Special Economic Zone, which due to it’s history of being contested land between the Chinese, Russians and Japanese, had let it develop into a lawless black-market and information-trading city. By the time of the events in Innocence, it’s become mainly a refugee city due to WWIII and NN-WWIV.
In any case the only setting that’s supposed to not be in Japan in-universe is in the Stand Alone Complex series, being Germany in Angel’s Poem, London in Angel’s Share, and Taiwan in Red Data. Otherwise all the episodes are either in Japan, or in waters controlled by the Japanese, or Dejima which is in Nagasaki bay, but semi-sovereign and mostly controlled by Asian mainland refugees that Japan took in during WWIII and NN-WWIV.
So TL;DR, GitS is set in Japan, but the model for Newport City is Hong Kong.
