SCRUBBED: How to watch the historic SpaceX/NASA launch today!

NASA certainly didn’t go cheap with the shuttle. It cost far more than they promised and still ended in disaster.

How is having a reusable spacecraft not “building on” previous decades of rocket design? The overall form factor and functionality of the rocket is very much an evolution of what came before it, not a radical departure a-la the Space Shuttle (which was far more expensive but had an awful safety record). I’m honestly not sure what you’re suggesting here. Do you think the shuttle was a superior design?

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Did I say other wise? Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be an international effort.

We could do what we did in the cold war, which was fund NASA, universities, as well as some private contractors. Why give it away to a bad actor like Musk?

I’m aware. I do study the cold war for a living, so I’m well aware of the interaction between private and public sectors for the space race. NASA (and the US public sector more broadly) was more firmly in the drivers seat and driving the agenda. This is starting to not become the case, with private interests taking greater control.

I’m meaning more in the relationship between the private/public sector.

I’m not in a position to say one way or the other. I DO know that the private sector is poaching expertise that could be working for the public interest rather than private gain.

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They bid for a job and were paid with taxpayer money. What they did belonged to the people and was to advance the common good. They were under contract, not the primary supplier.

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When it comes to the actual missions and science being done, I totally agree that the government, academics and the public in general need to be firmly in control. Some of the great partnerships such as what we’ve got going at JPL should definitely be continued. When it comes to the vehicle that’s used to provide the routine transportation of people, cargo, and space probes to the locations they need to be in order to do the mission, I don’t really see why a contractor providing that service is fundamentally bad. But reasonable people can disagree on this.

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Commercial Crew vehicles have to pass the same safety standards set for NASA’s own Orion capsule that’s still in development, and NASA, not the commercial providers, sets the rules and makes the final determination for whether they pass. Orion is itself caught up in the political machinations of the SLS project/boondoggle, and Boeing’s Starliner has suffered a ton of setbacks in trying to meet those standards of late, so SpaceX is sort of the sole US-based launch provider for crewed missions by default right now.

I agree that space is expensive, and that it’s worth it. But Russia’s space agency is not playing by international cooperation rules, and the cost of seats on Soyuz launches has steadily increased since 2006, with massive increases starting in 2011 when the Shuttle was retired.

For comparison, SpaceX is charging roughly $55 million per seat for Dragon, and Boeing plans on charging about $90 million for Starliner seats. Given that hitching a ride on a Boeing craft is projected to be more expensive than a Soyuz, cost clearly isn’t the sole consideration. The multi-provider Commercial Crew program is essentially a hedge—and at this point, a beneficial one, given Starliner and Orion’s setbacks—so that NASA doesn’t find itself beholden to the risks of a single launch platform again. The ESA and JAXA don’t have a human-rated launch platform, or the funding to construct one (they rely on NASA and Roscosmos for crewed launch services), and Roscosmos hasn’t been in the mood to play fair lately. Given the budget that NASA gets, they can’t develop and maintain multiple platforms themselves, so partnering with commercial providers is the only other alternative available to them.

If there was the political will for it, Congress could give NASA the money to buy (or at least license) SpaceX’s technology outright, but that would 1) never happen given the political climate related to private industry, and 2) be bad for all of the congresscritters whose districts rely on funding for programs like the SLS, which is why we’re instead still building Shuttle main engines (which are highly reusable) so they can be stuck onto disposable boosters and thrown away.

Musk’s considerable personal shittiness is really infuriating for me, because it makes it even harder to have any sort of unalloyed enthusiasm for what SpaceX has managed to accomplish. The folks who work there have done some incredible things that were dismissed by established space providers (including NASA) as impossible at worst or not cost-effective at best. They’ve proven a lot of people wrong, which has had a huge impact on the perception of what’s even possible to do. I don’t disagree that it’s unfortunate that those advancements are owned by a private company instead of held in trust as a national or international good, but again, NASA isn’t even being allowed to consider developing similar technology for the SLS launch platform because it’s little more than a congressional pork project masquerading as a viable heavy-left booster platform. I wish someone other than Musk were the ultimate beneficiary of NASA buying launches that use SpaceX’s technology, but reality being what it is, I’m also just glad that they exist to serve as an example at all.

I also wish the Orion and Commercial Crew programs weren’t wrapped up in a lot of nationalistic/jingoistic attitudes about America “controlling its own destiny” instead of working in a spirit of international cooperation, but wishes and horses and steak, and all that.

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Same for me, particularly given his recent behaviour of putting his own tesla workers at risk from covid. But there’s a whole litany of things, the guy is an entitled arsehole and i don’t want the future of space travel to be in the hands of him and billionaire manbabies like him.

I’ve seen the future of space travel and it’s weyland-yutani.

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I’d say that @ficuswhisperer spoke to my concerns above.

This. I do think if we continue down this road, NASA and academia will be mostly sidelined, and I don’t think that’s a positive development.

YMMV, of course.

And they will likely not take kindly to competition…

A friend of mine was actually personally sidelined by the cutting of funding for NASA, which put companies like Space X into the drivers seat here.

That is what will happen if it continues into private hands like this.

[ETA for link]

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