Oh, I didnāt think you were coming from a Cyrus fan girl position! No worriesā¦ 
Even if we donāt care for this music or any of the pop music, I think itās important to have these conversations, especially for those of us trying to raise young women. Itās harder for them, because they are given such mixed messages. I just donāt think that Cyrus and her ilk are in anyway positive role models for their sexuality. There is nothing behind it. I can get behind, say Amanda Palmer for her public displays of flesh, because I think she has some good things to say about body image and sexuality. Cyrus, Spears, Bynes, Rhianna, Kesha, Gagaā¦ I just donāt think they are positive role models in terms of art and sexuality.
lolā¦ the humanity
The fact that this was written and performed pre-internet-comments-section is mind-blowing, I wish discourse had a flag that would just make this video playā¦
I think itās more important to teach people to be independent and not need to confirm or copy others. Something about self confidence - rather then tell them that they need to control the actions of others. Other people will ALWAYS do something that you or myself wonāt agree with or like. It doesnāt mean we need to hate them nor be like them.
Indeed. Waaaay ahead of their time, those boys.
Points about Sinead well-taken, and thatās a beautiful song. I do think that a little more of a critical eye toward the authenticity of pop over folk, jazz, gospel singers is somewhat warranted. I think there is a meaningful difference between an artist genuinely liking and wanting to perform an interpretation of or tribute to the song of another performer or song writer versus a pop song factory process where writers are hired to crank out tunes that are assigned to talent by studios. The differences may not be as stark or black and white as this, but I would assume thereās some meaningful difference. However, I think Sineadās cover of Prince falls more on the former then the latter of this spectrum.
Thanks Mausium,
I would hardly classify anything about this as a failure. It helped bring these issues to light at personal expense to OāConner. Itās only a failure if you value the fickle finger of fame over human rights.
I find the whole idea of authenticity to be problematic. After all, we all have different interpretations of what that might be. I doubt that fans of Bieber or Cyrus find them to be inauthentic, even if we do.
Sadly, plenty of people do value fame over human rightsā¦ I think (or Iād like to think) that history has vindicated her action. Most people just see it as her being crazy and trying to get attentionāstill, 20 some odd years later.
Apparently the author wishes to be counted amongst them.
I get it though. So do you apparently.
Sineadās fantasticā¦ always thought so. her songs are deeply personal and political, which I love.
Well, Iām certainly not going to allow fans of Bieber or Cyrus define authenticity for me. Your level of cultural relativism is on a different plane from mine, methinks. Although I think that their love of those performers is an authenitc part of their lives as fans, that doesnāt mean, for me, that Bieber or Cyrusā musical decisions are any more authentic. But frankly, Iād even draw a line between Bieber and Cyrus. Cyrus was born the child of the already totally sell-out novelty act of Billy Ray Cyrus, so starts out with silver spoon. Then goes through the Disney machine, where a fake rock star persona is created and marketed. She leverages this bizarre fake child rocker character into some version of pop singer. Bieber, 's story, though not my cup of meat by any stretch, and no āwalk the lineā certainly has more agency, musically. Not to say that Mileyās life isnāt an authentic experience, but I will be skeptical of her musical and performance decisions.
Iām skeptical of both, too. You wonāt get an argument from me. I donāt find either particularly engaging or entertaining art or culture. Iām just saying that someone is buying their music and is paying attention to them. I donāt think you should allow them to define authenticity for us, but why do you (or I) get to define it for them?
I think this gets messier when we when start trying to tease out the authenticity of āalternativeā music, a totally industry created marketing term embraced by a rather large set of teenagers in the 90s. You could say the same about the 60s, see the argument Thomas Frank made in the Conquest of Cool, for example (or in any number of his articles in the Baffler back in the day). Check out the Frontline documentary Merchants of Cool, that shows how āalternativeā became just another way of marketing to a demographicā¦ Or look at how Burning Man attracts the elite now.
I think I want to argue that authenticity itself is in the eye of the beholder and part of the spectacle, carving out spaces of consumption that purport to be ārealā, but are just as manufactured in some ways. That doesnāt mean that we donāt have real cultural experiences, but I think itās good to be aware of this.
What a sad situation, particularly for Ms. OāConnorā, whose initial reach out to Cyrus seemed kind and compassionate and then couldnāt stop herself from responding to each new slight. What I find rather fascinating is how many people believe the person who perpetrated that horrible performance at the VMAs, is capable of finding 2-year-old tweets when Ms. OāConnor was having some issues and then using them against her. Itās pretty clear sheās a puppet and others are pulling the strings. That she allows it, and allows tweets from her account which mock the mentally ill, is pretty despicable. I wish people like Cyrus would just go away but it aināt gonna happen.
How so?
[quote=āGeth, post:56, topic:11323ā]
certain feminists refuse to criticize her at all because sheās āpresenting her sexuality.ā
[/quote]Theyāre talking about the tone of critics like yourself.
Ach donāt bother attacking them, itās just too much trouble. Simply stop consuming their godawful product. Donāt listen to it and it will go away!
And she has the gift of expression that transports the listener - a rare, rare talent.
ā¦ your honor, weād like to introduce President Bill Clinton to give evidence on the question at hand ā¦
[I am, btw, with you on this one]
