So you're on a back road

Oh, I once had a case where I was driving where smoke was coming out of my steering wheel, so I know crappy cars can catch fire, but most cases of that allow for self-extrication, so in this case if NEITHER adult has done so, it’s either due to incapacity or something worse.

I also forgot to note that if it’s obvious that one or both of the adults is already deceased, I am not going to save a corpse before a dog. By obvious, I don’t mean simply (not breathing) but very obvious like a very large hole where a head or chest ought to be.

Of course in reality, I will simply scream and panic, and everyone dies. Either that, or since this is a rural area, five guys working in the field next door are already on scene and two of them have volunteer fire department experience.

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I react to the idea that you would be “furious” if someone saved you, the man, at the expense of the dog. The assumption is that it’s a small nuclear family with mother and father and infant child, since nobody’s wearing identifying job title tags, and if nobody is able to extricate themselves, we might as well assume everyone is unconscious or otherwise unable to quickly and conveniently describe their relation to each other. Now, if the man really isn’t the child’s father (or father figure) and is anything from J. Random Hitchhiker to Drunk Uncle Joey, then sure, I’d say pull out the dog first if you feel you must, though my Women and Children First Order of Priority still lists dogs below humans, personally. I won’t judge if you apply your logic that way to a guy you are certain the infant is not largely reliant upon in a filial fashion. Not too harshly, anyway.

But absent any evidence indicating otherwise, I’m gonna assume the dude is the baby’s parent or guardian, and thus prioritize his rescue above the dog’s. Because even if I valued a dog’s life exactly as highly as I do any random human’s (and I don’t), the guy’s life-value would be greatly enhanced by his value to his child. And yeah, relatively few pets are as long-lasting, as vital, as precious to any person as a parent is. Especially when one is still an infant, with many years of utter parental dependency in the near future.

My point is: I think it’s foolish to be furious at a rescuer that pulled you out but didn’t save your dog first. You and your child owe that person a debt of gratitude, not only for saving your lives, but for making a choice that does not result in your kid growing up with a living dog that can never take the place of a dead father. And the reason I’ve been somewhat sharp in my defense of this point was this sentence:

Pets are not children. They are not morally or ethically interchangeable. If they were, your own order would have been listed as “baby or dog, whichever was most convenient, then the second of those two, then woman, then bloke.” Instead, you listed the dog third, not first or second.

So please refrain from saying that people who value human children somewhat differently than animal pets are too “inhumane” to have a valid opinion. I get that you love the animals in your life, which is a thoroughly laudable mindset. But I do believe it’s disingenuous to insist that dogs are “deserving of the same considerations” as our human children.

If nothing else, we don’t let our kids eat cat turds, and most of us don’t walk them around on leashes, either.

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It’s scenarios like this which make me think, “Oh yeah, I need to get some fire extinguishers for my house and car.”

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My point trumps yours, because my point is you are using this as an opportunity to make value-judgement based attacks on me, when in fact the OP asks

It doesn’t ask “what do you think others might do, ought to do, or better do if they don’t want to be told how wrong they are”.
In fact you have been mildly insulting and abusive in responses to things I harmlessly said I thought. , as if my thinking some other way than you do, is judgemental of YOU.

Why, sport?.

No, I won’t refrain from thinking humane people protect pets, and not that I need to repeat myself, but, I think this because the pets are DEPENDENT on us. If you think that is [quote=“Donald_Petersen, post:44, topic:95360”]
disingenuous
[/quote] it is quite clear your understanding of the word is faulty.

Lets keep things civil, please. This isn’t a real back road with a real scenario (I mean, if it were, what awesome system exists to tell me i have 90 seconds and can save only 3/4?) - so lets please not devolve into bickering at one another. Thanks!

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I am sorry you feel attacked. That was not my intent. This whole thing is a minor thought experiment, and nothing for either of us to get worked up over. I made the mistake of imagining myself in the position of having pulled you out of the flaming car, then being on the receiving end of your astonishment and fury that I chose to rescue you instead of the dog. I fully understand why you’d want to save the dog, and in the heat of that moment the grief would be nigh unbearable. Possibly most people who love their dogs would bemoan the fact that Death’s fickle finger took the helpless innocent pooch instead of his master, but I take a longer view, and probably a more anthropocentric one.

I’d like to live a life in a world wherein all lives, great and small, matter equally. That world still lies outside my experience. I eat meat, I wear leather, I sit on wood, I swat flies, I burn fossil fuels, I take up space and consume, consume, consume. I swerve to avoid people in the street, but I swerve measurably less for squirrels and other critters. My love for all living things turns out to be hierarchical. I’d save my kids before I’d save someone else’s, all things being equal. I’d save someone else’s kid before I’d save my adult brother. I’d save my dog before I’d save Donald Trump, but I’d save you before I’d save my dog. So we got that going for us.

And that was my point. I wasn’t the one who said he’d be “furious with anyone who did anything else.”

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Hey! Not cool man, Not Cool.

:wink:
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Sure. Though I just wonder why you choose to address your comment to me, when I was the only person in the whole thread who made no invidious comparisons, told no one why they “were wrong”, and cheerfully answered derision with reason. Just accidental choice to click your reply to me, I expect?.

It was a general comment, Apologies if it appeared directed at you specifically.

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Like the trolley problem, it’s easy to say that you’d pull the lever to save the most lives, but in reality the emotional response (and desire to avoid causing harm due to direct action) would screw-over a lot of people and cause then to freeze for long enough that it becomes the defacto option. (I never can tell whether that’s the fatal flaw in that exercise or the point of it.)

So yeah, the dog would get saved first more often than we’d like to admit. It’s how we’re wired.

This is also the most common likely option that a lot of people wouldn’t want to admit. Me too, I suspect.

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How the heck do you know this? Is there some sort of counter of “time remaining” and “passengers that you are allowed to save” on the car counting down?

Anyway, since it’s a freaking burning car, I’d go practical: I’d save the ones furthest from the fire first. If I thought that it was more likely for me to be able to save anyone at all rather than just getting myself killed.

If I get injured/incapacitated, I’m doing no one any good, and creating more work for other rescuers should they arrive. So, I’d prioritize my own life first, and save the others in such a way that I’m doing so with minimal risk to my own life.

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Which is how those with actual lifesaving training do it.

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Sweet.
Just as I read that, a character, speaking on The Virginian tv show in the other room, says "Well, there’s a train coming around the bend. It is heading right for you . . . "

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