I know. A lot of members feel the same way. It’s a real point of contention and discord in the Church right now as people try to come to terms with a doctrine that strikes many as unfair or cruel. Many members are understandably struggling with it.
Anyone curious about the Church’s position should really look at MormonsAndGays.org. It’s not going to change your mind, obviously, but at least you’ll know exactly what Mormons are being asked to believe.
Arguably, they are more benign than other churches, but that’s not saying much I suppose. (As soon as you are favourably compared to Westboro, you know it’s dangerous territory…) I agree that there’s a long way to go for the Church in terms of its policies regarding the service and acceptance of gay members.
Equating homosexuality with pedophilia is a very old, hurtful, and categorically incorrect view. I’m not sure that’s what the Church is doing with that particualr policy, but I can see how it appears that way.
As someone who considers themselves a believing member of the Church in good standing, I still hope for some changes in policy. However, it appears the moral opposition to gay marriage is a matter of doctrine in the church, not policy. I know that makes people angry. It makes a lot of members angry too, frankly.
Given their stance against gays in scouting and scout leadership, I’d say that is exactly what they are doing.
Please deposit that gif in the bank. I can’t stop giggling.
Mormons consider themselves Christian because they believe Jesus Christ lived, that he is the creator of the world and the Son of God who died for our sins and was resurrected. We worship him as the saviour of the world, and he is absolutely central to our faith. (See here for more.)
Other Christians tend to dismiss Mormons claims of Christianity because we also believe that after Christ’s resurrection, he visited the North American continent, and preached to people there. (This is the story recounted in the Book of Mormon). Obviously, other denominations don’t believe that.
Also, we believe the godhead is three separate beings; God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost; rather than three-in-one as expressed in the Nicene Creed. By that measure, other Christians tend to reject our claim to Christianity.
It also may have to do with the fact that we are not a schism from an existing sect. We consider ourselves a “restoration” of the ancient Church of the New Testament. (Restored by Joseph Smith, through divine guidance.) Other Christians naturally reject the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet receiving modern revelation from God, and that therefore we are not Christian, in the traditional sense.
So while most will concede that we worship Jesus Christ (it’s hard to deny), they assert that OUR Jesus is different from THEIR Jesus (aka, the REAL Jesus).
I’ve never understood why people reject our claim on being Christian. It seems semantic to me, but those are the primary reasons as far as I can tell.
Maybe, but if so, I agree that policy is wrong.
I think it is ironic for mainstream Christians to object to the LDS church doing the same thing to the NT that Christians do to the OT.
So the people who are considered “unaware” of the LDS gospel are told to go preach to the shades? Well I can see how well that’ll work out.
Celestial=Fiber
Telestrial=dial-up
Terrestrial=can w/string
I’m so glad I figured out organized religion for myself many years ago and found it wanting not even close to something I’d buy into.
Can they fuck the folks stuck in Teledialup or Terrecan or is that the ultimate paywall?
I dunno. My Zen Buddhist Dharma centers and temples don’t care at all if you’re gay…
There are also some…odd…beliefs in Mormon theology that even Mormons don’t realize are non-standard in Christian sects. My mom’s partner informed me, as I recall, that angels can incarnate as humans (or was it the other way around), which is certainly a surprise to other sects and Dionysius the Areopagite, from whom most Christian sects derive a lot of their angelic beliefs. 
Then there are things around temple ceremonies, etc.
If we don’t approve of your flavor of Buddhism, we get to say that you’re not Buddhist, right?
Are you really wanting to start this again? I don’t care if you “approve” or not. I’m not “approving” or “not approving” of Mormons. I’m not a Christian, though I was raised a Catholic, partially in Utah as you know.
Sorry, but there are actual definitions to religions, including lines that define those that are members and not-members. There is history and culture. I believe the existing body of Christianity is allowed to define itself, individually by sect, and en masse by group opinion. No non-Mormon sect of Christians considers the Mormons to be Christians to my knowledge. They consider them a new religion with some Christian trappings created in the 19th century.
If you and other Mormons (or ex-Mormons in your case), want to consider the Mormons Christian, more power to you. My point is that non-Mormons who care (aka mostly other Christians) don’t consider them as such. I’m not sure why this is peeing in your cheerios. It is simply the actual facts: No Christian sect who isn’t Mormon considers them Christian. You can hate it, like it, love it, whatever. That doesn’t change things and I’m not harming you by pointing it out.
I am aware of the longstanding PR effort in television and commercials for the Mormon Church to appear inoffensive and “just like” other Christians. I always assumed this was for the purposes of proselytizing (because we all know Mormons love to missionize) and to appear “normal Americans” the way they weren’t considered, for example, in the 19th century when they engaged in plural marriage, tried to found their own nation, and were occupied by the US military.
And Mormons are one of those groups of people who are “allowed to define itself, individually by sect, and en masse by group opinion” - and they say they are Christian.
Christians used to roast each other alive (literally) over who was the “True Christian” and who was the heretic. There is no one definition of “Christian”, nor will there ever be. If there is a god, only that god can say for certain who, if anybody’s, interpretation is correct. So, a Christian is, provisionally, whomever says they are Christian, and only god can say otherwise.
I’m sorry but if I make a new religion tomorrow, recruit a bunch of followers, and then say I follow Jesus, it doesn’t mean I’m actually a Christian or other Christians will consider me as such, even if we then wait 180 years.
I did graduate work in religious studies, I suspect I have a different view on religion and its boundaries than the popular mindset.
By the way, given other threads, I’m not going to further engage with you, @skeptic. You’re clearly looking for things I’m saying to pounce on to bolster your other issues.
uh, no @albill , that would be you jumping to conclusions, again. That seems to be your thing.
This is a thread I was already in, a topic that I find interesting and you made a point I would have countered regardless of who posted it.
That’s nice and all, but it doesn’t actually prove your point for you. Nor have you, nor can you, dispute the fact that Christians have been arguing about what constitutes a “Christian” since the beginning of Christianity (eg, do you need to be Jewish to be Christian). There is no objective way to settle the issue of what different people claim a divine being wants.
If Mormons want to identify as Christians, they can, and do. If mainstream protestant Christians want to say, “No way!” they can. Every sect that changes doctrine to one degree or another is “mak[ing] a new religion tomorrow, recruit[ing] a bunch of followers, and then say[ing] I follow Jesus”, with the difference merely being a matter of degrees. Heck, mainstream Christian bibles don’t even all have the same books, which you, who has done graduate work in religious studies, must know.
That the sins of the children who aren’t baptized will actually fall upon the parents. It’s in the D&C 68:25
25And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
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