Seen it. Fun flick.
Oh, is that all?
/s
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The saddest thing I ever saw, as a teen in Utah, around 1988, was the two block âcruising stripâ for gays in downtown Salt Lake City. Talk about a beaten down group of folks.
Yeah, the Mormon church loves them just like the Catholics.
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I defer to your superior field experience in that case; though Iâll note that, in general, I tend to be pretty lenient about not arguing with people who allege âChristianityâ, because the alternative is getting sucked into the quagmire of âWhat is real âChristianityâ anyway?â, which is hard to feel good about when foundation-era records are patchy as hell, and subsequent development has been marked by ceaseless controversy, settlement of doctrinal disputes by good old fashioned violence, and attempts at reconciliation that are chillingly reminiscent of standards-body politics(The Nicene creed, say, is a great deal more readable than anything coming out of the ISO, IEEE, IETF, etc; but the process of producing it was not so dissimilar).
If I am moved to comment, Iâd much rather just grant them whatever label they claim, skip that argument, and move on to what I think of what they are doing; rather than getting into a trademark dispute.
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Seconded. This is like gender identity.
âYou say youâre Christian? Ok.â
I agree but to be Christian (or Jewish or Muslim) in your religious tradition, I do feel you have to do more than say âIâm Christian, reallyâ especially when your religion is created out of whole cloth by a prophet in North America in the 19th century with brand new holy books, theology, and practices.
Iâm not judging them. Iâm a Buddhist who grew up Catholic (and lived in Utah for many years). I donât have a personal issue here. I just think more about accuracy.
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Why? Youâre not Christian, right? Youâre a Bad Buddhist by your own admission.
Whatâs it matter to you if a Christian is a True Scotsman? It doesnât. Youâre being silly.
If they say they worship Christ, they do. And theyâre still terribly misguided, so donât bother fighting that fight.
(âYouâre a woman? Whereâs your purse?â)
Sure but my badness in my Buddhism is irrelevant. My Buddhism generally does follow that of an American sect that Buddhists back in the home land will acknowledge is actually Buddhism too.
I say they are Christian the ways the âJews for Jesusâ are Jewish, which is basically ânot at all by the standards of the community with which they are trying to attach themselves.â
As someone who has done work in Religious Studies, Iâm afraid that religions do have boundaries and history and just identifying as something isnât enough to make your new religion into that thing. If I say âIâm a Muslimâ but then donât do Muslim things, reject the Koran, etc., people wonât regard me as âreallyâ a Muslim. This is why Black Muslims (as a sect) are not accepted as ârealâ Muslims in the Muslim world (though Black Muslims often wind up converting to traditional Islam).
The LDS church is a 19th century new religion that legitimized itself by calling itself âChristianâ while having few facets of it being actually Christian.
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âŚAnd thatâs none of their fucking business.
Do you live by the principals you believe in? What makes you bad at it?
Not for me to say. You say youâre a Buddhist and thatâs the way it is.
This isnât difficult.
Sorry but isnât how it works.
You can call yourself whatever you want. Fine. Whatever. I donât care.
Donât expect the rest of the world to buy into it though or agree to call you that thing if what youâre doing is outside the boundaries of that thing.
Religion is as much a community with history as it is anything else.
Or Iâm going by the idea âcommunities have the ability to define their own boundariesâ and respecting that.
There is nothing âhotheadedâ about it and thatâs kind of insulting to say.
Sorry, but I live in a world where words have meanings and just because you call yourself something doesnât mean anyone else will recognize you as that thing. There is a social aspect to it.
If you want to make up a new religion, be my guest, but donât pretend that members of the old religion will agree you are one of them when you say you are. Thatâs not how the world works. All the other denominations of Christianity that comment on the Mormons agree that they arenât Christians.
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Being gay puts a permanent mark on your church records, and you are prevented from working with minors at any church related activities, falsely conflating being gay with being a pedophile. This happened to multiple national and world swing dance champion (and So You Think You Can Dance winner) Benji Schwimmer. Heâs a professional dance instructor, so preventing him from working with minors at anything church related (in a state that is hugely Mormon) was a big deal for him personally and professionally. He has since left the church after much personal angst, exacerbated by the church.
Check out his journey on Mormon Stories (long form interviews by John Dehlin):
I forget what the criteria for this permanent mark on ones record are, but the Mormon Church is not benign when it comes to gays, not by any measure.
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Hereâs what the faithful will try to tell you this Thanksgiving weekend:
âThe Church isnât mean to gays, it just loves the sinner and not the sin.â
Thank you (and please, to those who know others) for telling that one like it is.
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Thatâs one eloquent 18 year old! If thatâs the result of his Mormon education youâd have to give them a little credit.
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Thatâs certainly fair. Given that âChristianâ has traditionally been a good branding choice in the US, it certainly isnât a shock that someone would exaggerate their connection to it when making a bid for the mainstream. And you would seem to have much greater exposure to the matter than I, so Iâll go with your data.
My intention, I apologize if it wasnât clear, was not to dispute your information, just to note that I tend to default to granting people their claims about what they are when in areas that lack anything like clear technical definition(so âchristianâ is something Iâd prefer to avoid fighting about; but âmonotheistâ is something I might, poke at).
(edit: because my clarifications seem to need clarification this morning: if you look at religions âphylogeneticallyâ, in terms of whose texts are derived from where; and how given traditions can be traced back, who historically practiced what and how various practices spread and changed; you can definitely define something not unlike a âspeciesâ equivalent for religions; and in that sense people can be blatantly wrong about what they âareâ; but unless you are specifically talking history of religion, that sense tends to rub people the wrong way for conversational purposes.)
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Heâs an AMAZING dancer! And he always makes sure that his partner looks good, which is the mark of a true professional.
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Hey then â congratulations to your Mom (her vote pâbly helped!) on Salt Lake Cityâs first openly gay mayor (Jackie Biskupski). Also, congratulations to April Hoagland and Beckie Peirce â goofy 7th District Court Juvenile Judge Scott Johansen has not only recused himself from their case, but has also rescinded his crazy order to have their 1-year old foster child removed.
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They did vote. 
Wow, that is awful.
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