Super Seducer is a Playstation/Steam game where players grab women's "boobs" and "asses"

when i want a cheeseburger, i do not go around taste testing everything until i get my cheeseburger. if i had to taste my way to it i would probably have to admit i am either blind, an entitled asshole, or a blind entitled asshole.

iam not blimd, so when i want a :hamburger: i go intentionally to the cheeseburger store. i do not play games with tacos and bagels trying to convinve them my attribution error is a flaw in their recipe

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I’m sorry, that was not a place I would have liked this discussion to lead.

And how. While I was never into PUA, I have been a sad, confused dude and never a women being hit on or bothered excessively, or assaulted or worse.

It’s much easier for me to comprehend and consider what it takes to salvage people who may have been in a similar situation to me, and less easy to consider what it’s like to be not me and the subject of this negative attention. I don’t know why mostly older boys and young men end up in the state of desperation and bitterness that leads to PUA and misogynist attitudes, but it’s important to me (and I think society) to understand how to get from here to somewhere better.

Just shouting “you’re a horrible person” isn’t a solution to their problem, and while there isn’t much sympathy for “their problems” around here, the solution to their problem is a mutually beneficial one.

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How about “the overwhelming majority of women don’t want to be treated that way and taking advice from PUAs is a terrible idea because it contributes to the objectification of your fellow human beings.”

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But once again, that’s not what happening. It’s the behavior that is objectionable. If we can’t call out specific behaviors, we can’t even talk about the problem.

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then its a good thing it was that straw man and not me saying they are just horrible people. isnt it?

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6 posts were split to a new topic: Are there situations in which “PUA” advice could actually be helpful?

Tangentially related to Mr. La Ruina’s game, there’s an upcoming dating sim that may make me try out the genre:

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Holy shit, that looks amazing. And OMG, Mara Wilson!

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From the trailer, it’s certainly not as horrific as I feared. He does point out that the creepiest (and rather blatantly stupid) sexual harassment not only doesn’t work, but is illegal. I suppose there are people out there who do need that reminder.

But the “100% guaranteed to get you laid” stuff is bogus, as well as a really awful approach to relationships.

It comes down to goals.

Ultimately, PUAs are out to browbeat as many women as they can into a regretful one night stand - by any means possible.

Regular chaps are advised to take up hobbies like writing, music, painting - something that shows a vulnerable, but nurturing side. Pay attention and help people through tough situations. It not only pays dividends, but you feel like a champ too.

In reality, few people are having ALL the sex. Those who do are couples with intense chemistry that you can’t just magick with mind games. What is the secret to successfully finding a partner? An openness to trying new experiences, and a willingness to look foolish.

Aim to find someone with different hobbies but shared values. Now that’s something no “dating sim” will teach ya.

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More like prevent it, by telling clueless dudes why not to be grabby twits. The “why” is a crap reason, but if the prevention would not be.

ETA less than a day left before the topic auto closes. whee.

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it still condones and encourages harassment and treating women like objects.

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At the begining of this year, when the “meetoo” hashtag was at its peak, a collective of 100 women asked the french newspaper “Le Monde” to publish an open letter about the “freedom to disturb”. The text is here (in French, and requires pay):

Their main argument was that this freedom was a necessary component of sexual liberation.

I have no personal opinion one way or the other. I am too old to play the “pick up artist” and I don’t generally try to chat women in the street or try to start relationships at work. But the fact that these 100 women, most of them prominently known, took the effort to publish an open letter in one of the most respected newspaper in their country is an indication that indeed not all women agree on the subject.

So our choices are, apparently, put up with being harassed or we don’t get sexual freedom? Because you realize that women in countries where there is no “sexual liberation” are also routinely harassed?

At some point, men are going to have to deal with the fact that WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS and ARE ENTITLED TO BODILY AUTONOMY. No. they are wrong that sexual liberation doesn’t mean that men get to say whatever the want to us, at any time. No, not at all. The problem is not with women. The problem is with men who refuse to stop treating women like objects.

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I never said that, I only cited an open letter written by women.

I can certainly agree that treating women like objects is deeply wrong.

Amazingly women can disagree on this topic. The letter is wrong.

This game does not, many men do not. Part of the disagreement on this thread has been whether or not this game merely reinforces the objectification of women or whether it helps alleviate it… I think it helps reinforce it, you’re general responses here have leaned towards believing that it’s not doing so (maybe I’m wrong on that point).

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Yes, but the fact that they disagree is there. They are women, most of them are old enough to remember the time before sexual revolution. I would not dismiss their opinion without trying to understand it, which I do not think I do.

I did not say that either. On the contrary, it would seem to me that any pick-up method builds on the idea that women should be treated as objects for the gratification of men.

My point is that it’s not either/or, as they seem to suggest. The sexual revolution was a mixed bag, in terms of changes it brought for women. It became, more often than not, women STILL doing double duty (child care, being responsible for men’s sexuality) while still having to struggle for basic respect in the public sphere.

Okay. But if you believe that, at least some of your comments here aren’t clear on that point, which is why you got some backlash from other posters.

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That is what I have read as well.

It seems that here as about everywhere on the Internet, many people have a “us against them” mentality. That makes it difficult for someone who is more interested in finding the reason behind the facts than in following the crowd. On top of that, this site is extremely US-centric and I don’t live in the USA. But I am old enough to have a pretty thick skin.

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