The morning after the Brexit vote, Nigel Farage admits money for the NHS was a lie

She probably won’t be purring this time.

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Were I in her pumps, I suspect I may have run out of give-a-shit a long time ago.

It’s got to be a nigh-unrecognizable world to her now.

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Can the vote be nullified given false promises and pretenses?

If that were an option, no election anywhere would stand.
So, hopefully yes. :smiley:

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I know, it’s a snowball’s chance… but given how monumental this is and how the big deal is it’s a direct vote? One would hope almost immediate post vote deceive of fraud to deceive and misdirect would cause the whole thing to be called off.

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The most cowardly act of Cameron (and this is saying something) is that he apparently won’t request leaving the EU under article 50 (which sets the 2-year timer) himself, rather leaving it to his as of yet unknown successor, thereby dragging out the process. At least have some balls and do it right away.

European parliament president Schulz already said that he expects the request to leave this Tuesday latest, since (quote from memory): “Europe cannot be held hostage to intra-Tory powerplays”.

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I think it’s politically reasonable for Cameron to have somebody else preside over the Brexit negotiations. After all, now if the UK eventually gets a non-optimal deal from the remainder of the EU it’ll be his successor’s fault, not his, while otherwise the Brexit proponents will be able to claim that they would have negotiated much better arrangements if they’d only been given the chance.

(This is also why the Brexit proponents are not falling over themselves to become PM in his place. You’d expect somebody like Johnson to be eager to take over the helm but he’s too clever for that; they’re probably looking for an expendable figurehead right now, and there’s enough back-pedaling going on on the Brexit side that it may not actually happen after all.)

As far as Schulz is concerned, there really isn’t a lot he can do beyond posturing. The European parliament can’t kick the UK out of the EU even if they wanted to, and if the UK government doesn’t give the article-50 notice immediately, or for that matter never actually gets around to starting the article-50 proceedings at all, then nothing will happen. (The next general election on the regular UK schedule won’t be until 2020, but given recent events it isn’t entirely out of the question that there may be one before that, and whoever is in charge after it may not feel bound to the referendum result.)

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That’s the straw I’m clutching at. Some random nobody gets anointed as temporary PM (Nicky Morgan?), Corbyn gets knifed by Labour and replaced by someone more stridently pro-EU, and we have another general election because of all the mess, which turns into effectively another referendum (maybe with a Labour/LD/SNP/Green pact?). Then hopefully a pro-EU victory, and article 50 never gets triggered.

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Cowardly? Maybe… this is definitely the best way Cameron can stick it to his opponents, though. Brexit will be a disaster and he’s saying “I utterly despise the idea of Brexit, I’d rather flee in ignominy than deal with this shit sandwich. Let the politicians who supported it sort this shit out.”

Ach, what we see is like a political soap opera/black comedy… Armando Ianucci is going to have to make another television series based on Brexit.

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Further agitating the people who you have to negotiate with in the near future doesn’t seem like a good idea.
Currently there seems to be a consensus (backed primarily by Germany) not to punish the UK too harshly or at all.
That is likely to change if France and others get angry enough they could decide to pull a “Brexit”-maneuver themselves during the negotiations, an act of self-harm just to stick it to the other.

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Very well put post. You’re correct in basically all your points, however I think I’ll take the “continental” (boy what a stupid word) position here: If you want out, fine. But then make it quick, rip the band-aid right off. The Tories wobblying aroung forever is the last thing europe needs. After all, new treaties need to be made. And it won’t get any cheaper for the UK, just ask Norway.

And yes, Schulz can’t do more than posture. He is, however, very very good at that :wink:

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There is, of course, the time-honoured maxim of “When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout”.

On the other hand, for the EU, the correct thing to do right now is nothing, because really as far as the EU is concerned nothing important has happened yet, and there is little to be gained by trying to force the issue. If I was in charge at the EU, I’d issue a statement along the lines of “we regret the result of the Brexit referendum and shall be watching future developments within the UK with great interest; in the meantime we shall be continuing our work on behalf of, and for the benefit of, the EU member states” and wait and see whether an Article 50 notification will ever be forthcoming.

This is especially appropriate given that the Brexit proponents seem to have little or no idea of what they actually want to happen next. They are in the unenviable position of having to figure out how to eat their cake and have it, and it will be very interesting indeed to see what they come up with in the way of proposed terms for a post-Brexit UK-EU agreement.

My offer is this…nothing.

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(Hey)^2.
The NZ newspaper opinionators are currently consoling themselves with the thought that it’s OK if the world economy goes pear-shaped; NZ will get better trading access to the UK. Eventually.

Also, Boris Johnson has previously promised more favourable terms for NZers wanting to stay and work in the UK, Huzzah! Because BoJo is totally a man of his word. And the English are so friendly towards visiting workers.

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I don’t think the UK economy, especially the financial market, will benefit from further uncertainty. Doing nothing isn’t the best choice even from the UK perspective, but doing clever choices clearly isn’t the UKs best forte …

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Quoted from the Guardian:

“However, prominent Leave campaigner and cabinet minister Theresa Villiers, writing in the Observer, dismissed the calls. “There is no need to plunge into tabling article 50 now, whatever [European commission president] Mr Juncker may want,” she writes, referring to the trigger for formal Brexit negotiations. “The period of informal negotiation prior to an article 50 process will be crucial and should not be rushed.””

I mean, what the fuck. There are no prior negotiations. You wanted out, now get the fuck out. Eat your own porridge, or however british expressions go.

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“You shat your bed, now lie in it.”

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Ewww. I like mine better.

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I like Malcom Tucker’s version.

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Does anyone else have a nearly irrepressible urge to refer to this guy as ‘Nigel Falange’?

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