Kingsley has explicitly stated in interviews that he changed his name circa 1977 because he feared a “foreign-sounding” name would hurt his career, much like Martin Sheen and Rita Hayworth. That’s not a judgement of him, it’s an indication of how people of South Asian descent have historically had difficulty getting adequate representation on screen and stage.
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Yeah, the gag is that they begged him to join their team, and he didn’t. Instead, he is bowling with gang as a fully fleshed out character. Did you not catch that?
We are literally 100 messages in, and you still can’t articulate what is racist about Apu. The best you can do is point to how other people are hurt, implying that it is the writers fault, rather than the actual racist that were racist at them.
Apu is an immigrant, with accent, running a convenience store; a real thing that lots of people are. You can’t describe how that is racist, because it isn’t. Making fun of someone who is South Asian by using a catch phrase from a South Asian character in the Simpsons because you are both South Asian, is racist. Having a South Asian immigrant character in Simpsons doing normal America stuff while having an accent is not racist. Mocking people using that character is racist.
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I don’t disagree with any of that.
I’d just be cautious, in his particular case, not to leave any impression or somehow imply that he’s an example of someone hiding his heritage now.
Sometimes if there’s one prominent POC with a successful career, people spend more time on whether they’re being adequately representative instead of dealing with the real issue, that there’s not enough representatives getting work. I don’t think you’re wrong about anything, it’s just another part of it.
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What? Apu is a white guy doing a fake Desi accent to amuse other white people. That’s racist.
The debate here, such as it is, is HOW racist it is and whether The Simpsons creators and audience collectively give a shit. You can’t back up 100 years and pretend you don’t understand what racism is. CHECKMATE LIBTARDS YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT
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By all accounts Al Jolson wasn’t racist. There is a story about him that he stood up for some fellow cast members after they were refused service at a restaurant. It’s even reported ‘that black audiences wept during screenings’ of The Jazz Singer. Look we can argue that Al Jolson never intended to be racist by putting on black face. That it was just the time and that his representation was far less racist then other people doing the same thing. History tells us though that even if Al Jolson didn’t see the connection it was still a racist thing to do.
Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, is played by Hank Azaria. Now look I’m sure Hank Azaria isn’t racist and I’m sure some people of ‘South Asian’ origin love his performance. I’m sure his funny voice is just a funny voice and that he even though he himself says that it is based on a stereotype it is intended not to be dispectful. I’m sure that Apu’s surname which itself is a ‘joke’ about ethnic names wasn’t intended to be offensive. Way back in 1990 I’m sure all this was okay. Although nowadays it looks like a racist thing to do.
I don’t think the writers viewed Apu’s culture and beliefs as inferior. I just think Hank Azaria did a funny voice and they wrote a character (or the other way around). It’s just Apu was the only representation of that race in prime time at that time. Now people of the race they tried to represent say it is racist. That’s the criteria that matters, that is what makes it racist. The fact that racists like it and use it IS the show creators problem. It shows that in an amazing show that I love. That they failed terribly in a characters creation.
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I agree here, to an extent. Because racism isn’t just about individual actions and intentions, it’s about systems of power and privilege. But of course, there were very much people at the time talking about this very issue then. So, while Jolson’s intentions (and off screen actions) might not be racist, most certainly plenty of people understood blackface as racist at the time.
Again, I’m fairly certain that South East Asian rights groups existed in the 90s, and objected to Apu, it was just less likely to be discussed in mass culture, because mass media was (and still is to a great extent) dominated by people who are not racial minorities in the US, and are less likely to understand a character like Apu as racist.
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Oh I agree with you entirely. (As I often do)
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What an interesting assertion.
By some accounts Al Jolson was racist. To say otherwise is the same as saying he was so universally beloved by black people that no one so much as complained about him. That would be a hard claim to back up.
That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have had some good days, but they don’t eliminate the fact that he decided to base his act on making fun of black people.
Please, just, please don’t do that.
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I agree ‘some’ would have been better. However the comments you used were in context. At the end of that exact paragraph I wrote that it was racist thing to do. I’m not defending him, I’m not defending the times. It’s racist.
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No it’s not, it’s based on the name of a kid one of the writers went to school with.
some of those people said it was racist (and the reasons for it being racist were more to do with the context than the portrayal itself), others thought it wasn’t, and the context was fine.
Took a look at this and it is a joke. It’s a joke based on an actual name, but that’s still a joke.
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So you are saying that voice actors are only allowed to do accents for characters that match their race, ethnicity, and natural accent? Do you think this should be in the union rules?
It sounds you are saying that it’s just the color of the voice actors skin that makes Apu racist, but if we left everything else the same and had it voice by an Indian guy, it would no longer be racist?
No it does not. Don’t twist his words. It can’t be said any more plainly.
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I’m genuinely trying to understand your argument. Is it that something isn’t racist unless everyone in the targeted group thinks it is racist? Or it that some people aren’t offended by Apu and they are of South Asian ancestry so therefore no one of South Asian ancestry should be offended?
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as you’re well aware, voice actors are allowed to do whatever they want – but if what they want to do is a cartoon minstrel act on TV, then other people are allowed to describe it with the R word
you don’t win a prize for playing dumb, nobody has to wait for you to catch up, you don’t get a veto
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For comparisons:
Jay Silverheels was awesome.
The part of Tonto had racist assumptions from its conception, was written as racist often in practice, and supported a lot of racists in the real world by giving them a single cartoonish icon they could judge real people against to diminish and mock them.
It was a role written not to support aboriginal people, but to make a white guy look cooler. In that sense it’s no different than boxing a gay guy into the “saucy friend” role, or having a single “magical negro” character in a sea of white actors, to serve a plot about the white actors. It doesn’t matter how positive the character is if they’re only there to service white assumptions of how good white people are, and are there to show how white people “just deserve” POC support, service, and camaraderie.
Apu isn’t there to represent South Asians, he’s there to represent a single idea of how South Asians can be entertaining in a super-white context, like a loveable black janitor on an otherwise-white-coded show. That’s what makes it racist.
(It’s not only racist, but I’ll be happy when people stop arguing that it’s somehow 100% racism-free.)
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