I have often wondered how ESTA qualifies as “visa-free” travel. You have to apply in advance, supply an intrusive level of detail (now including social media logins!), and pay a fee. The previous system involved filling out a little green form on the plane.
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Well, in the early 2000s, our paranoia has been a little bit slower to develop than American paranoia, so at first, we frankly didn’t see the need. And not labeling it as a visa allowed us to keep up the illusion of reciprocity. I’ve been to Turkey and Sri Lanka, I had to fill out online forms for both that were about at an ESTA level of inconvenience; in one case, that was called a visa, in the other case it was a “travel authorization” and a visa was issued on the border without further ado.
But then the US also demands real visas (in-person interview at an embassy) from European citizens for various reasons like America’s vendetta against Iran. As my choice of where I travel should be none of any government’s business, we should at least have started collecting a hefty fee from every American traveller for reasons of reciprocity.
I am not generally for closed borders, but using a “divide and conquer” tactic against Europe or punishing Europeans for visiting countries that America doesn’t like must be associated with a certain cost.
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Cheaper than an ESTA!
Hey! Over here! In Reality!? Yeah, over here, Broken-Record-guy!
It’s been the Trump Administration that’s been doing the “Papers please” thing inside the United States for a couple years now. Your projection is showing!
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I was stopped at an internal checkpoint in the US and asked my citizenship 5 years before that buffon took office.
And what made you think that the LEOs (I assume you were’t checked by some random person) were Socialists? You might want look into the political leanings of ICE and CBP, and US LEOs in general.
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Also ICE was founded during the Bush administration.
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While I understand and appreciate the sentiment, the better short-term approach would be for the EU to retain its existing policy. It would thus continue to welcome American dollars and brains and expertise that would prefer not to stay in a land of brain-dead protectionism and isolationism “led” by a moron. It will also eliminate some hassle when (if?) sanity and normalcy returns to the White House.
Historically, Nativism and anti-immigrant sentiment in the U.S. have been rooted in right-wing populism. When it comes to opposing the ever-growing border zone and the overreach of ICE, it’s been liberals, progressives, and self-described socialists who’ve taken the lead over the past 17 years, not conservatives or the Know-Nothing 27%.
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Not sure why you think it’s the “left wingers” that wants this or what is has at all do with socialism. “Papers Please” is a fascist authoritarianism thing.
The ACLU (that notorious left-wing group) has been fighting the 100-mile border zone for a long time. BTW, it was originally established in 1953 edit: actually it was 1946 with the passing of the Immigration and Nationality Act that established a 25 mile border zone. It was increased to 100 miles in 1953.
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Pretty sure it means Americans can enter for as many times as they want within three years after issue, not that they can stay for three years, if that’s what you meant.
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But I thought we were too busy trying to abolish borders? So which is it?
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Note that ETIAS is not a visa, it is a traveler registration for pre-authorization. A visa requires a much deeper background check, is far more restrictive, and typically requires filing a long application to the consulate of the country you want to visit (including in many cases a visit to the consulate or consular division of the embassy), and is also much more costly.
Rather, ETIAS is similar to ESTA in the USA, which is for citizens of countries where the US does not require a visa (“visa waiver program”). The rules are very similar (i.e., after a passport has been registered with ESTA or ETIAS, you can have as many entries to the US or Schengen zone as one wants), but ETIAS is much cheaper than ESTA…
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Indeed, and the linked CNN story and headline has been corrected. @doctorow should fix this post’s headline.
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He should also fix the implied targeted quid pro quo (the US is requiring visas, so the EU is responding). That’s NOT what the article says:
“From 2021, citizens from 60 countries will be required to apply for the ETIAS before entering the Schengen Area. Brazil, Canada, New Zealand, Singapore, Israel and Mauritius are among those countries.”
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Yes, and the ETIAS program was introduced legislatively in November 2016 and adopted in July of last year – hardly a timely response to some hypothetical slight. Moreover, visitors from Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria, etc. have always needed visas to enter the USA. It’s not like they were recently denied the right to enter without one. As @elgarak posted above, the EU and Schengen are not synonymous. Lots of mistakes here.
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Yeah, a killfile.
Ha, not a problem for me. I also have a British passp-- …
Oh.
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And I understand that sentiment as well, “but”. First, I don’t think it’s about American brains and expertise, as to the extend those are shared by Americans travelling to Europe, they would probably not be on a tourist visa anyway. Tourist dollars and the opportunity for more Americans to see Europe is what’s at stake. And how much they are at stake would very much depend on how severe the “retaliation” is.
So if we required every American tourist who wants to go Europe to make an in-person appointment at a European embassy in Washington DC for an in-person interview (and shell out non-refundable 180 USD), that would be excessive. But just making the fee match what we are charged? Shouldn’t be too bad, compared to the cost of a trans-atlantic flight, that’s still mostly symbolic.
Unfortunately, I also have little hope about the time when normalcy returns to White House (as I sure hope it will). The problem is that most of these grievances are a lot older than the current moron. ESTA was introduces under Obama. Poland joined the EU in 2004, so both Bush and Obama had a chance to lift the visa requirement for Polish citizens. The recent bullying against everyone who happened to visit Iran is indeed a Trump think. But as far as Iran is concerned, the American definition of post-Trump normalcy will probably still include “bullying other nations into treating Iran as an enemy”, so I don’t actually expect a Democratic president to change that particular rule.
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Crap. This shit is getting out of hand. At least I have my permanent German visa already. But it’s looking more and more like I should start setting aside money for becoming a German (which will be painful because I won’t be allowed dual citizenship, so I will have to pay the USA for the whole renouncing thingy).
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Concur. Follow the press releases back and see where the policy started in a heads of state meeting in June 2016. It was triggered by Brexit, terrorist attacks in France and other European nations, and probably also the rise of the white supremacist rightwing.
On 29 June 2016, the 27 heads of state or government met informally to discuss the political and practical implications of ‘Brexit’. Leaders acknowledged that the outcome of the UK referendum has created a new situation for the European Union, and recognised at the same time that many people across Europe express dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs, be it at the European or national level.
Ahead of the summit President Tusk has been consulting all the heads of state or government bilaterally in order to prepare the meeting. Based on these consultations he has identified three main challenges: irregular migration, terrorism and unease about the impact of globalisation.
These are not unique to Europe, but are key to understanding the low level of confidence in the EU. … It is also expected that leaders will agree in Bratislava that all persons, including EU citizens, crossing the EU’s external borders will be checked against relevant databases.
So, really has got nothing to do with US visa policy.
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