Not even close. Bad analogy. The topic at hand was detecting signals from space, which would require a fairly advanced civilization, and I’d say that to know conclusively what the stars are is a fairly approximate example of a civilized intelligence. If you’d like to suggest another measure, please do. How about 'a creature that is capable of emitting and receiving radio waves on any frequency of choice’?[quote=“kupfernigk, post:24, topic:71996”]
Incidentally did you know that birds have an inbuilt ability to identify the order of sets up to 4 while for mammals, including is, it is only 3? Or that some birds are demonstrating the forming of twigs to make effective insect removers, and are reusing them?
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There are numerous examples of crazy levels of intelligence in the animal kingdom, but none of them have come even close to the levels we’re talking, despite some having an evolution longer than ours. We have no idea whether these bird behaviours of tool-use are new, or if certain birds have always been doing this. I’d put my money on the latter.
Birds are an interesting example, because they’re a far more adaptable species than primates. They evolved from what few dinosaurs survived, and take forms as diverse as penguins and hummingbirds. They’ve sought out a living in practically every corner of Earth, yet haven’t needed to evolve a higher intelligence, despite their lineage, adaptability and lots of time.
Why would the absence of humans change anything? If anything species such as pigeons, crows and seagulls thrive among us.
We’re a pretty rare freak of nature.
No, you were building a strawman in bringing up exceptionalism. Creationism doesn’t even come into the picture with the long timeframes of evolution and the sample sizes we’re talking about. It’s not about us being special and looking for reasons to back it up. It’s asking fundamental questions like, “just how marooned are we?”
I did consider creatures with radar, so put in the caveat “frequency of choice”.
I’d still stick with my original comparison of knowing what the stars are though.
(very OT)
Corvids are very intelligent in general, and New Caledonian Crows especially so. They create various complex tools suited to different purposes. One thing biologists have noticed among many corvids and esp. New Caledonian Crows is their ability to teach their young new abilities and pass on learning. So while they may have had these abilities for a long time, their ability to learn over time would give them an edge for evolving cognitively. Also many New Caledonian Crow food sources require tool use to gather so there’s selective pressure. Their beak’s evolved to facilitate better tool use. They also have the advantage a long adolescence during which to learn and few predators.
I mostly mention this because I think they’re amazing corvids, though. Whether they could evolve to reach the point of creating electronics doesn’t seem likely to me, though evolution can pull off some amazing feats over millions of years with the right selective pressures.
