I felt relevant to the discussion to specify that we were targeting women who wanted to be targets.
But that is not what happened and not what I said. First, there was a lot more effort than new clothes and standing straight. Second, it was not about getting a quality girlfriend (even if that happened), but just about spending an evening in a nightclub and having fun, as most young people are doing. For these men, who were socially inept, it was about catching up on what others learned in their late teens.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. Thank you. Indeed it struck me at the time that some of the advice was toxic, in particular “Mystery”, who is credited in the comic. I just let what seemed wrong on the side and so did the others.
Are you even listening to yourself here? Going for a one-night-stand is mutual decision, not a male hunter/female prey scenario. Which is apparently your definition of “spending an evening in a nightclub and having fun, as most young people are doing.”
Your attitude here is clear, and you seem uninterested in considering anything that contradicts it. I will end this discussion by agreeing that (in many ways) you clearly don’t get it.
If you want to defend a movement that was always toxic and sexist and linked to some ugly philosophies of determinism and selfishness, and that’s only started being explicit about itself and those affiliations relatively recently, you can do it with someone else.
This happened in France. At the time, men had to be the initiator of the interaction or there would be no interaction, ever. The decision was mutual, but the man had to initiate and then the woman could refuse, which happened frequently. It may be different now.
Maybe the problem here is with the word “PUA”? We were just trying to “court” women. The idea was about self improvement and teaching men who had no idea how to “court” women how to do it?
You can’t really extrapolate a ton of info on toxic PUA culture and how it’s evolved from conversation with your friends about their sexual encounters.
This isn’t rocket surgery - meeting up with women you find attractive, and being honest about what you want (a one night stand, a date, a relationship, whatever), not a problem. As long as everyone is a consenting adult and being honest… it’s fine.
PUA is based around the concept of a “game” that men and women are supposedly playing, and includes advocating for doing shitty things like lying to women and attacking their self-worth to get them in bed. It’s built on the notion that men are superior and are entitled to get laid on demand. It positions women as… essentially pokemon, something to be collected, not fellow human beings with needs and wants of their own which should be respected. In other words, it’s toxic bullshit culture that has become a constituent part of the alt-right movement today.
Then, it is a question of vocabulary and history of language. Consider that, at the time, what I called “fast seduction” (we actually did not use the word “PUA”) was more similar to what you call “courting”. It just is that the use of the word and the object of the internet groups changes (which is the point I am trying to get through, with difficulties).
Normally it would go without saying that it was also toxic BS culture back in France in 1960, whatever beard of “tradition” and whatever linguistic “misunderstandings” might cover it. However…
